People in the Popular comments boxes are talking about “the canon”. I’m always quite curious as to which bits of the canon have ‘taken’ with a broadly pop-positive audience such as we have here. So here’s a poll, very easy to fill in, just say which of the Top 50 albums OF ALL TIME EVER you love. You can interpret how strong an attachment you want “love” to be, of course.
The list of albums is from Acclaimed Music, a kind of ‘metacanon’ which lists the top 3000 albums.
To make it more interesting, answer these questions in the comments box:
1. What’s the WORST record on this list?
2. Which of the records you ticked did you love first?
3. Which of them did you start to love most recently?
Poll below the cut.
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I like the Doors a lot but really not the first LP: Strange Days, Waiting for the Sun and LA Woman are all way better… (Name three other canonic rockbands w/o a bass player)
Also: RIDE THE SNAKE!
Also also: “In 2009, Manzarek collaborated with “Weird Al” Yankovic, playing keyboards on the single “Craigslist” which is a style parody of the Doors”
Yeah, my dislike for the Doors is almost entirely because of Morrison’s collosal d1ckishness. I have no problems with the music, even liking a fair bit of stuff that obv. draws quite heaviliy on their sound, but his persona is so, so annoying.
I’m surprised at how low Hendrix is polling too. I didn’t vote for them myself but, you know, they are bloody good (though, again, I’d have gone with ‘Axis: Bold As Love’ instead)
Isn’t Off The Wall considered more ‘classic’ than Thriller, by the way?
I’m guessing that ‘Live At The Apollo’ is the least-listened to of the 50, rather than unloved by those who know it.
Glossing over the fact that I missed The Queen is Dead off because I haven’t got my glasses on – I think I ticked about 21, presuming it was acceptable to use a little poetic licence around “love”. I mean “really like, would recommend, enjoy playing”. The secret truth about a lot of famously good albums is that they’re really good.
I’m finding it quite hard to say which one I loved most recently because it just seems like they all just…happened at the same time, when I was about 13-15. I remember very few of them coming out, and I’m 28 – which tells you a lot about a) how regularly the canon is updated and b) how this stuff functions quite nicely as a Tricolore course in rock that gets the fundamentals out of the way so you can dig a little deeper later. (Or if you’re my dad c) how no one has made any good music since 1978). Anyway, I think I was in my 20s when I found how good Born to Run was, so that was probably last over the finish line.
I’m quite interested in the anti-canon. By which I don’t mean the good stuff which we know isn’t quite canon but we’re quite used to hearing people defend, reading dissertations about how it is equally worthy &c &c (this frequently means pop, hip hop and dance, doesn’t it?). So, not the Bee Gees, Abba, Fleetwood Mac, Hall & Oates, Girls Aloud, Pet Shop Boys – these things are probably quite well represented in the secret second canon, you know the one what secret Illuminati tastemakers in that London like. Rather, I mean things that it’s just *not okay to like*. I mean the true underclass, the unrescuably unhip. Alanis Morissette. Tori Amos. I don’t like this stuff either, but I hate the fact that I wince when people say they do. Hardly the behaviour of an enlightened equal opportunities pop kid. But I do wince. I wonder if it would be possible to make a list of the “anti-canon”. Or even just think of a better name for it.
I love “Graceland” though.
Swings and roundabouts.
Worst – “Josh Tree” – Bono was a twat by then
“Forever Changes” – as discussed in previous post.
Earliest – “Abbey Road” – still my favourite Beatles LP
“Marquee Moon” – probably still my favourite from the list
Most Recent – “Horses” – only really listened to it after I heard “Twelve” and before her recent tour.
As with most of us, I could happily add another fifty better albums, amny of which I would consider “canon”, but I appreciate the list needs to be finite.
65 – it only got 2/5 on Allmusic.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_the_Apollo_%28Hall_&_Oates_album%29
(sorry)
@51 One of the things I love best about Dylan is sorta the sameiness. He has long, long epic songs that start up, and feel like they have been going *forever*, and will keep going forever, and when the world ends Dylan will still be singing it, and it still won’t quite make sense, and this is a good thing. I think Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands is my favourite example of this manner of song, and its placement at the end of Blonde on Blonde is one of the biggest reasons I love that album so much.
@68 – Zing!
@58 Rosie – never mind, some of us will be doing the same with U2 and Radiohead.
I was going to save this for #616 or #668, but I keep wanting to thrust a copy of this into the hands of every U2 hater here. The “pompous”, “arrogant” Bono really isn’t the true Paul Hewson, and Flanagan shows why – and I say that as someone who used to believe it, even though I liked much of their music. Flanagan accompanied them around the world during their Achtung Baby/Zoorapa phase, and the result is like a backstage pass and travelogue combined; I would even venture that you don’t have to be a U2 fan to enjoy it. I’ve never made it through Eamon Dunphy’s 1980s band bio, but U2 at the End of the World was a real page-turner.
#70 – Radiohead? Not on Popular’s turf.
I’m actually not a total U2 hater – the singles off the Joshua Tree and Unforgettable Fire albums do a particular thing really well.
I ticked about 25, and I like a fair few more.
WORST for me (of those I’ve heard) is probably The Joshua Tree — then again, I don’t hate it, just don’t really think it deserves to be there.
The Talking Heads (Remain in Light) is probably the one I loved first, due to my stepfather playing their stuff all the time. Bob Dylan is the one I’ve got into most recently, or actually Born to Run, probably, as these are the kinds of canonical touchstones that people often mention and which I have spent most of my life not really paying attention to.
I am also surprised @66 suggesting that Tori Amos might be anti-canon. I’ve never even for a moment considered that liking her music is “wrong” by anyone’s standards (though I concede she has a fair few loopy fans)! Boys for Pele is one of my favourite albums.
i’ve heard less than half of these and found most of them “B- wouldn’t listen again unless pressed” at best. only a couple i need, and a couple i’d rather never hear
@71 Not Popular, no, but in terms of this canon poll, Radiohead fans reprazent. (Although The Bends > OK Computer < Kid A, with In Rainbows fighting it out in there too.)
I'm conflicted about most U2 albums; all their '80s albums are half great (or less than half in a couple of cases) and half just okay for me, which means that none rank as mighty landmarks (although in this context I figured expressing love for The Joshua Tree was fair). Achtung Baby was 11/12ths great for me, and the remaining 1/12th was great in its single remix, so it wins big time; Zooropa was a close second; and every album since is back to their earlier strike rate.
The “anti-canon” could be just as contentious as the Canon. For here, we are moving away from broad(ish) consensus into the murky waters of subjectivity. Even considering the criteria for anti-canon could raise some fierce debate. Do we base it on sales over negative critical response? What to exclude? If the Canon is rock-centric, do we take pop, hip-hop and dance and exclude C&W, metal and other less fashionable genre from where the anti-canon may supply more examples? (Ah, yes but if the album is good/bad (?) enough and meets the anti-canon criteria, then it won’t matter will it?)
Or if there is a metacanon of 3000 albums from which you can benchmark say, 100 as regularly the best, there must be 100×3000 anti-metacanon. Who would have the patience to sift through that lot?
Have heard: about 35 of these.
I’m setting the bar very high on ‘love’ – only about 5 would qualify.
1. Worst? Hmmm. Abbey Road? There’s something about that record, a sort of smugness (cf. also most of Lennon’s solo career) that irritates. I’m not big on hating individual records though, and even the albums on the list that overall leave me cold (e.g. Blonde on Blonde, What’s Going On, Forever Changes) have their moments. I’ll save my hate for the canon itself. It gets more ridiculous with every year that passes. As does the idea that The Album is a thing for which a canon is even needed.
2. First love? Remain in Light or Closer, which appeared around the same time.
3. Latest? Live at the Apollo, possibly – though I haven’t played it enough to know whether I truly love it or just like it.
@ #30 – that Gambo list was much longer IIRC. Went up to at least 200 and possibly 500. Was published in a fancy book which libraries often stocked. The album in the lower reaches of the list I’ve also wanted to hear – but at same time am frightened to now, as it’s bound to disappoint – is Playback by The Appletree Theatre.
@66 I guess I get what you mean when you say Amos and Morissette are anti-canon, in that they’re not reliable mainstays of lists like these, but I’ve seen both – esp Little Earthquakes – on enough “greatest ever” lists to really call them anti-canon; that phrase brings to mind genres that are inherently resistant to rock-crit canonisation, singles-driven or club-based or female-coded music: freestyle, r+b, dancehall, house.
I only have time for a couple of Morissette songs (though “You Oughta Know” is a stunningly well-crafted song) but Amos is a sorely underrated artist – superior to all but a handful of those on this list and the equal of the very best – who never seems to get the props she deserves for her songcraft, scale of ambition, singularity of vision and sense of experimentation. From The Choirgirl Hotel and Boys For Pele are probably my favourite albums of the 90s. It’s a pity that many seem resistant to her; Tom would be far better off investigating her work over this tedious list!
Highest Alanis on the Acclaimed Music list – Jagged Little Pill (#326)
Highest Tori – Little Earthquakes (#441)
Out of THREE THOUSAND so plenty of room for more stuff by them I’d guess. No.3000 is Black & White by The Stranglers so the bar is not being set high!
I voted before I really thought about it and therefore my threshold was far too low.
In retrospect the only ones I’d say I really “love” are “Thriller”, “Dark Side of The Moon” and “Closer” and probably at least one out of “The White Album”, “Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band” and “Abbey Road” (but the Beatles ubiquitousness almost makes it hard to really know what I think!).
Worst: “Nevermind” to think “people” (all right a large proportion were 14 year olds who hated their parents)were listening to this whining dinosaur bollocks in the rave era beggars belief. About as cutting edge (outside America)in the early 90s as Engelbert Humperdinck…
Earliest: “Dark Side of the Moon” had it as a 14 year old at the beginning of my couple of years of being earnest about rock music.
Last: “Thriller” just because it’s the most recent of my choices.
This list terrifies me, as I don;t think I’ve heard any of these albums all the way through. I’d be hard pressed to identify the artist on probably half the list, maybe more.
I’m 23, this is perhaps the reason, I am also in no way an albums guy, But still, the extent of my ignorance is disconcerting.
I should have added “The Doors” (I can ignore the pretentious aspects in favour of the overall atmosphere/perfect music) to my list of really loved although I prefer “LA Woman”.
What no “Electric Warrior”, “Off The Wall”, Nick Drake, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, anything from the post-1988 parting of the ways (even if WAS a singles medium)? – this list is USA-centric to say the least
Lex, without Dylan you don’t get Joni and Tori and Alanis and Ashlee and Lindsay and Taylor.
Here’s a very short thing (625 words) I wrote about Dylan just a few years ago. The intent was to make classic Dylan a living problematic force.
Think of the wind from Dylan’s 1965 mind rustling up dust and litter and emotion in the culture, still blowing today, delivering us whole heaps of jetsam and brilliance, Taylor Swift’s feminine me-first storytelling and Ke$ha’s celebration of vomit.
To make the ’60s classics potent rather than pedestaled it helps to rejigger our minds. Imagine a couple of kids on the bus singing “She loves you yeah yeah yeah” and they won’t shut up, just that refrain over and over, for twenty or thirty minutes until the bus driver threatens to kick them off.
Think of Jim Morrison singing “All the children are insane” and he’s talking about everyone you know. Neil Young singing “This much madness is too much sorrow.” Ditto.
I should have been a little more generous with my love ticks. The Doors and Are You Experienced?* still sound exciting to me. Electric guitar once meant electric adventure. I’d rate them higher than anything in our current top ten (Pet Sounds through Purple Rain) except Highway 61 Revisited and *maybe* The Velvet Underground & Nico.
Probably canons are the only way that art from the past plays in the present. But there ought to be ways that it (1) actually does play in the present, intermingles and takes its lumps, (2) is open to the air of the world, so it contains more than one notion of greatness and one style of listening and using, and (3) contains something of what it was like when the artwork was young and struggling, before we knew what was what with it, when it was surrounded by contrary sounds. An alternative canon might have K-Tel disco anthologies that somehow include Kiss and Bachman-Turner-Overdrive tracks because K-Tel couldn’t license enough actual disco songs for the comp. It would include Swedish pop reggae. It would include Boney M. It would include difficult music. It would include Fleetwood Mac’s Rumours. It would include U. Roy. It would still risk being rendered lame in the context of our appreciation, so we’d have to attend to points 1 through 3.
(I think stuff like Popular is a good way of making music continue to play in the present. I hope I can make time to attend to Marcello‘s and Jonathan‘s similar efforts.)
*American version with “Hey Joe” and without “Red House.”
And of course koganbot = above-mentioned Frank Kogan, penny drops, clink clatter clunk. Looking forward to reading your book.
I regret that I only recently started paying Lord Sükråt to do my publicity.
Recently had a convo where I explained that the reason I rarely credit the people whose ideas I lift is word limits. Just realized that my Dylan piece is a perfect example, in that I only had 625 words so didn’t mention that I took the “He didn’t know his place” argument (the “uppity” half, that is) straight from Greil Marcus’s review of Albert Goldman’s Elvis book in the Village Voice. Anyway, obv. I do have the space here.
As for a countercanon: this list has no country, no makeout music, no swing, little jazz, little funk, very little that has anything to do with dub, dancehall, disco, hip-hop, freestyle, house, rave, Italodisco, bosh, post-soul r&b, metal – so very little of the amazing changes that have gripped my musical world for the last forty years, and only one album prior to the last forty-five. But a lot of that music has resisted consensus and canonization.
@Rory 27. #616 may indeed be scorned when it comes up, but it did have that rather that nifty Hollywood remix (+ its associated great vid.). Indeed I don’t remember hearing the album mix (or seeeing its vid. – I never saw the movie either) at the time: the remix+hip.vid. was *that* dominant. My experience was that lots of people who were otherwise completely allergic to U2, liked that remix a lot, danced merrily to it, etc..
@koganbot. Thanks for your Dylan piece. I have to say that watching Mad Men the last year or two has given me a much sharper sense of the cultural and personal energies that were around in the early ’60s that Dylan and the Beatles really burst out of.
I only truly love 5 of the albums on that list, with Exile on Main St and After The Goldrush at the top.
The worst record on there – take a bow Bono.
The one I loved first was probably Highway 61, although I wouldn’t vote for it now, as I can barely listen to Bob Dylan anymore.
That list of ‘canonical’ albums invokes feelings mainly of – yeah used to like that, Oh God I remember really thinking I should like that. etc etc. Very few of those records are fun to listen to. Several are truly terrible.
The Beatles I find hard to love because I don’t feel I am experiencing listening to them first hand. But I do really like side 2 of Abbey Road and (this will sound very pompous) my own edit of The White Album.
Revolver I find quite a depressing listen and have never understood its popularity.
Public Enemy, Sly Stone and Astral Weeks all just missed the cut – all good albums that I like and at times have loved. But I don’t really listen to them much nowadays.
And it’s a shame we’ve had to endure Radiohead and U2 for so long.
Would have voted 6 had Rumours made the list….that’s one of the few ‘canon’ albums that I have never fallen out of love with
When the 1978 canon was mooted — no one has jumnped in to say there were earlier attempts, so I’m going to stick with my claim that this was foundational — it was an attempt to summarise c.20 years of a particular strand of music: of importance to the summarisers. This canon list, by contrast, summarises c.55 years of several strands of music. So — to use a phrase I consider hugely silly — it’s apples and oranges. Twenty years is a meaningful slice of one generation’s experience: a collective lookback is not only achievable, but reasonable (leaving aside whether Gambaccini’s methodology was acceptable). A 55-year-slice has to drop across the experiences of several generations (even if we accept that where and how we draw the boundaries is contentious): as a summary, it can’t be a snapshot of shared experience — because that “shared” experience contains what an old friend-foe of mine unhelpfully terms “cleavage”. I’d argue (so would he) that the generations were also divided against themselves; but I think a correct use of canon can probably elucidate that. This aggregate canon smooshes together division within generation and division between generation; I don;t see how to “use it correctly” to resurrest this distinction. The sense of its being stifling is surely that you literally can’t imagine half of its components ever vanishing from the list — because the methodology is skewed to ensure the won’t.
(One of the things that was so exciting at the time about punk’s break with its immediate past was that it acknowledged “cleavage” as a fact: but this actually only retains meaning if you continue to valorise noth sides of the split; which is why — tho I love the Pistols, and regard the impact of Lydon’s squiggly intellect on my own as one of the shaping experiences of my life — I think Rosie is basically correct to say that the routinisation of punk as a value has ultimately turned things more stupid. I dare say were Andypandy’s rival aesthetic to be established without opposition, and all the rockchat it opposes swept into oblivion, this too would enforce stupidity rather than crackling intelligence…)
(Frank K’s book is also about this process of routinisation: “renedered lame in the context of our appreciation” — I am excited that I am to be PAID for saying such things! The invoice is in the mail!)
lots of typos there: i blame the “impact of Lydon’s squiggly intellect on my own”