Comments on: inuit science and the commodification of victory: scott versus amundsen a century on https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on Lollards in the high church of low culture Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:44:02 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 By: mark sinker https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-2237629 Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:44:02 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-2237629 #NEVERFORGET

ahem

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By: Andrew Farrell https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-2237606 Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:17:30 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-2237606 #JUSTICE4THEFOOTNOTES

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By: a tanned rested and unlogged lørd sükråt wötsît https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1059875 Fri, 11 May 2012 23:22:48 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1059875 I have read it, yes — it was linked in the original EVEN LONGER version but in the end I moved the link to one of the not-yet-installed footnotes. Gran essentially says that Scott was a great man but a bad explorer, and Amundsen a bad man but a great explorer. It’s also where I source Gran’s bad opinion of PO Evans from.

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By: inakamono https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1059816 Fri, 11 May 2012 18:07:07 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1059816 I wonder if you’ve read Huntford’s original interview with Tryggve Gran?

It can be read from the jpg’s here:

http://thosewhodared.blogspot.jp/2010/10/tryggve-gran-interview-with-roland.html

The backstory is that Huntford was working as the Observer’s Scandinavia correspondent and happened to file this interview. The editor told him he should do a book on the subject and wrote in the byline that a book was forthcoming; that’s what set Huntford off to start researching it, relocating to the UK and seeking access to Scott’s archives.

The irony is that, in the interview, Huntford notes “To this day, [Gran] has preserved a tremendous loyalty to Scott, resenting any slur on his reputation.” The article continues: “Over the years, Gran has given more than a thousand lectures in Norway on the expedition. ‘Scott’s memory owes a lot to me,’ he says proudly.”

I feel the real tragedy in all this is that an old man, 84 years old at the time, opened his heart to a journeyman journalist, inspiring him to research ancient events. And the result of that research was the exact opposite of whatever the old man might have hoped.

I suppose Gran was from the same “layer of the cake” as Scott; he couldn’t have known that someone would cut a different slice from it. And of course, as he was Scott’s ski-instructor, he was probably thinking from what you call the same “tranche” as Huntford.

But it still feels like the cake got sliced up wrong, here.

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By: a tanned rested and unlogged lørd sükråt wötsît https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1059107 Tue, 08 May 2012 10:28:34 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1059107 I lent my copy of Spufford to my sister ages ago — must get it back and reread while I’m working on the footnotes. My immediate response is that yes, these two species of obligation and narrative and structure — Markham’s vision of the heroic naval quest and the establishment of the first-ever polar research station — are both very present, and very much at odds, in professional ethos and goal. But Scott is best seen as torn between the two: I don’t think he’s personally impatient with the scientists at all, he seems to like writing about their projects, and certainly writes engagingly about them. Perhaps they offered a kind of haven from the responsibilities of command and the demands of decision.

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By: Alex https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1059106 Tue, 08 May 2012 09:56:47 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1059106 What do you make of Francis Spufford’s line that the expedition was driven by conflict between the scientists, for whom the trip to the pole was a silly propaganda curlicue, and Markham & Scott, for whom the scientists were silly buggers getting in the way but who had to be put up with because it was their train set?

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By: a tanned rested and unlogged lørd sükråt wötsît https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057803 Tue, 01 May 2012 20:27:23 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057803 (Just to be clear, Amundsen didn’t actually set foot on the North Pole, he flew over it in an airship: but all prior claims — the by-foot visits of Cooke and Peary, Byrd’s overflight — are now considered dubious).

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By: gdr https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057736 Tue, 01 May 2012 14:12:12 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057736 The Scott/Amundsen comparison shows the importance of getting your publicity right. Scott was lucky to have Cherry-Garrard to write his epitaph. Cherry-Garrard ought not to have been there at all, had personnel been selected according to any kind of sensible criteria (such as the possession of suitable skills for Antarctic exploration). But “The Worst Journey in the World” is so much more interesting and better written than Amundsen’s anodyne account, which suppresses any hint of drama (such as the debacle of the September false start, the quarrel with Hjalmar Johansen, and the near death of Kristian Prestrud). We might think differently about Amundsen’s expedition if we had more versions of the events.

Incidentally, Amundsen was (probably) first to reach the North Pole, but hardly anyone seems to be aware of the achievement. A better publicist could have made something more out of this.

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By: Mark M https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057544 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:17:54 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057544 I haven’t actually heard this, but they were plugging it endlessly on the World Service, but the summary suggests a counter-revisionist take redeeming Scott not as an Imperial martyr but as the man who made possible the modern Antarctic science project (and by extension – depending on your climate change scientific/political position – the man who may yet save the world).

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By: Pete https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057464 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:10:45 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057464 “The Norwegians treated it as a ski-race, a sporting event they’d invented;” Also inventing sport is another British job…

(OK have skim read all now, will read properly later and comment.)

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By: Pete https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057440 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:42:25 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057440 Apologies for not having read more than the first eighteen paragraphs yet, but what fascinated me about Scott is how he became a hero of Empire, much like say Livingstone, for the qualities which could be projected upon him rather than any that he may have had. The dressing up of Amundsen as a cheat was beguilingly satisfying for any child who felt they too had been cheated (ie all children ever except perhaps the toppermost of the toffermost for WHOM IT DIDN’T MATTER). So the qualities of stoicism, fair play, and (this is the important bit areonf Great War) Duty and Accepting Yr Lot is thrust upon him with his untimely but not unlikely death.

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By: mark sinker https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2012/04/inuit-science-and-the-commodification-of-victory-scott-versus-amundsen-a-century-on/comment-page-1#comment-1057385 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:32:24 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=23116#comment-1057385 I imagine I’ll be tweaking this here and there over the next few days!

The footnotes are still a mess and won’t be sorted for a week or three at the earliest: many are just citations, but a few should actually extend and clarify arguments or ideas, mine or Huntford’s. Your puzzlement or disagreement may well help: I strongly sense not everything here is adequately explained or grounded yet! So yes, I am crowd-sourcing the editorial improvement process.

Now I actually need to go pay some bills and catch up with life in the temperate domestic regions :(

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