Comments on: Complex Semiotics of Music Videos, Pt. Zzzzzz https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz Lollards in the high church of low culture Sat, 07 May 2011 10:42:33 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 By: Trudy https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-837931 Sat, 07 May 2011 10:42:33 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-837931 You?re a real deep tikhner. Thanks for sharing.

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By: Martin Skidmore https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604839 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:38:15 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604839 Well I never saw that period of Hank Pym, unless we count the Ultimates, which I imagine we aren’t. Still, there is a difference there: Black Canary and Green Arrow both punch quite a lot, the Wasp doesn’t. The difference in fist-fighting abilities is far greater. (I am not trying to defend the BC-GA bit, by the way – I’ve not seen it, but it sounds bad.)

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By: Pete https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604806 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:14:18 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604806 The JLA issue is worth considering when compared to the infamous Hank Pym wifebeater scenario. But yes, clearly comics characters do tend to relate a bit more physically than normal people.

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By: Martin Skidmore https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604799 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:37:20 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604799 The JLA issue is not the same thing: these are characters who hit and get hit, often through brick walls, every day. It’s their profession. I’m not saying that makes it okay, but that context does change how much meaning we should attach to one punch.

As for Buffy, that is heroes vs villains, so again not remotely the same thing. There is no point in bringing in a woman beating up a male vampire here. And there is no sense in which Angel’s soul emasculated him.

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By: koganbot https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604724 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:28:15 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604724 (To revise my previous post, here’s a parenthetical comment to the effect that Piratemoggy is a huge fan of the extremely HOT Miranda Lambert.)

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By: koganbot https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604723 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:25:19 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604723 (Parenthetical comment to the effect that Piratemoggy is a huge Miranda Lambert fan.)

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By: Matthew https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604627 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:12:12 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604627 It’s not just music videos, is it – you have 7 seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and almost everything Joss Whedon has put his name to since) in which women get supernaturally empowered to kick the crap out of mostly male things, and every male character is emasculated in one way or another (soul, chip in the head, being an English librarian). Just been watching some refreshingly un-PC 70s movies, e.g, Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, and I have to say, I wouldn’t mind the pendulum swinging back in the direction of men and women being EQUALLY entitled to diss, bicker with and get one over one another for a change.

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By: Pete Baran https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604524 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:09:14 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604524 Same issue discuss regarding a sequence in last weeks Justice League Of America comic where a female comic character (and deadly martial artist no less) punches her husband becuase he embarrassed her!
http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/03/30/comic-book-idiosyncrasies%E2%80%A6if-she-hits-him-its-funny/

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By: vinylscot https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604501 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:31:18 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604501 Media portrayal of violence between the sexes is a highly problematic subject, as I’m sure you are all aware. For many years now, it has been OK to portray f on m violence, as there is a tacit understanding that males can’t complain because “they started it” – a facile argument, but much of the discourse around this subject is disturbingly facile.

A number of years ago, a Scottish women’s charity ran a deeply offensive poster campaign accusing all males of being wife-beaters. It carried a tag-line along the lines of “Men, when will YOU learn?”, and was straight from the “All men are bastards” stable of subtlety. Suggesting that ALL men were up to such despicable behaviour was a low, dirty stunt, and undoubtedly lost the organisation (but not the cause) some support.

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By: vinylscot https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604496 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:22:40 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604496 “Feisty” is one of the most overused words of our times. Almost any female describing herself will use that word.

I wonder how many of them realise it’s actual meaning, according to thefreedictionary online, is “like a a nervous belligerent little mongrel dog” Some may say that’s rather apt in many cases; I wouldn’t dare.

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By: mark sinker https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604476 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:13:43 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604476 sorry i wrote my post very late and unclearly — what i was wondering is that Wild Wimminz may ALSO be a male-gaze outshoot (rather than a compensatory riot girrl thingy)

so that what’s actually goin on is echoes and responses within the closed sphere of difft trends and fashions in male sexual stance… (just as jackass new laddism is more a reaction against nu-man “sensitivity”, rather than an actual engagement with and response to any species of feminism?)

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By: Hazel https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604424 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:23:40 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604424 Kat- I think I meant the video to Louise’s version of ‘Stuck In The Middle With You,’ that plays off that resevoir dogs scene. Although there’s plenty of videos that do something similar; the most recent proper shocker was the ‘No Can Do’ vid by the Sugababes.

dubdobdee- Yes but women also find sub-dom relationships really hot, possibly to an even greater “accepted” degree than men & strong, feisty menfolk aren’t exactly off the aesthetic menu, as a rule. That’s why we like it when Zac Efron jumps on cars and gets all assertive about going to drama school.

Martin- Yes, I agree that’s the excuse that’s used & good call on the female-to-male domestic (or otherwise) violence; there’s a lot of it that goes on, to my knowledge and it’s probably actually something that ought to have a lot more said about it. I think I particularly dislike the idea that the fact some women have been abused gives other females a sense of entitlement to beat men; that’s a very dangerous idea, as you say. :/

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By: Lisekit https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604315 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:03:05 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604315 Ah, Kat spotted already that the video you were clearly indicating was Phixx! But really, that’s just too queer* for words.

*I mean queer as in queer theory, innit.

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By: mark sinker https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604308 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:34:23 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604308 also isn’t some of the reason is that some male viewers find feisty fighty women super-hott? (sub-dom dynamic doesn’t refute anything anyone’s said so far, but it does complicate it a bit)

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By: Martin Skidmore https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604301 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:17:55 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604301 The excuse or reason in a lot of these is women responding to mistreatment of some kind, and women get to fight back rather than cave. I know that often is a feeble excuse to show what you are complaining about, and you are right. One other point is the social-historical context: women abusing men does not come with a weight of historical oppression and violence and rape in the way that the flip of that does.

This doesn’t mean I think it’s a good thing, or even generally excusable, but I am far less troubled by it than I would be by violence against women. That’s something I know a lot about too, and it is worth noting that among all the horrific stories of abuse by men against women, it does occasionally go the other way round. I can’t imagine this kind of imagery does anything much to ameliorate the former (I could hope that it might, occasionally, but I don’t feel it’s likely to achieve a lot), and it may make the latter problem worse.

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By: Kat but logged out innit https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604294 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:57:45 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604294 some poor bloke ends up tied up and beaten

Ah you mean like Phixx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlhM05XNzhM

(ta by the way! That video-scoffing website again: The Vids Are Alright)

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By: Hazel https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/comment-page-1#comment-604284 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:24:00 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/03/complex-semiotics-of-music-videos-pt-zzzzzz/#comment-604284 Incidentally I would like to clarify that I am merely grumpy at the videos themselves and in no way dissing the amazing efforts of, in particular, the lovely Kat Stevens in analysing music videos. There are many people who do a sterling job of watching these things and taking the piss out of them and may they continue for a very long time.

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