The original concept for the third Spice Girls album – according to Stannard and Rowe, the writers and producers the group jilted for Forever – was that it would concern the girls becoming women, the group maturing along with their audience. Even ignoring the fact that these “girls” were already the five most successful women in British music and sticking purely to the branding, It wasn’t the most promising of ideas. Sure, a lot of the charm and quality of Spice was how unapologetic it was in drawing inspiration from teen magazine problem pages – balancing friends and boys; safe sex; being nice to your Mum. It might have aimed itself squarely at a particular market, but it didn’t talk down to them – and in not doing so, it won a far huger audience. But Spiceworld had already moved away from that, and besides, there were plenty of grown-up alternatives out there. The Spice Girls never making anything like “Black Coffee” was no shame: forcing themselves to try might have been.
In the event, Geri went, and the sessions were scrapped – she was the group’s most enthusiastic conceptualist anyway. The corny idea – and faint desperation – of the girls-become-women notion does underline, though, what a difficult position the rest of the group were in. They were still a success – their 1998 World Tour had been a sell-out – but the pop transformation they’d helped set in motion was moving with startling speed. When Spiceworld was released, the wave of Spice successors was only beginning to break: “Spice Up Your Life!” predated B*Witched, Billie, and All Saints’ number ones. In the three year gap between it and “Holler”, those bands had not only flourished, but largely vanished. British pop was a boys’ game again, and in America, the girls were the solo ex-Disney stars, with their rather un-Spicely angst. Or they were R&B groups – more futuristic and more polished than the Spicers’ brash cheek had ever allowed for. The Spice model of the group – a cartoon gang of pals, with one broad personality trait apiece – had been holed by Geri’s departure: now it was sinking.
Ultimately, it would have taken an astonishing tactician and brilliant songs to have led the Spice Girls through the changed pop landscape and have them emerge anywhere near its top. The group had neither. They had four tired women whose minds were half on their solo careers, and they had Darkchild, aka Rodney Jerkins, aka the producer of “Say My Name”, aka the first male vocalist on a Spice Girls track. Saying his name, as it happened, and the group’s name, and the track’s – and date-stamping it for good measure. Like “Holler” needed to sound any more 2000.
By now we knew a bit about the Girls’ individual tastes and instincts. Emma and Victoria had made dance music – rather more startling than “Holler”, in the latter case. Mel B had made plenty of R&B attempts. Mel C had at least dabbled in it, but she’d dabbled in everything, and her voice sounds most subdued and least at ease on this single. Still, a move into modernist R&B shouldn’t have come as a shock, or felt like a disappointment. And Jerkins as a producer had more than enough pedigree for the job – as well as the swiss-watch engineering of “Say My Name”, he’d helmed Brandy and Monica’s delightfully dramatic “The Boy Is Mine” and Whitney Houston’s icy comeback, “It’s Not Right But It’s OK”. He had a flair for songs, and vocals, built around emotional pressure, and strong women holding up under it. There should have been room for a great collaboration.
But Jerkins is also an inconsistent producer – scan his list of hits and there’s a fair bit of drizzle among the flashes of lighting. “Holler” shifts and shuffles in a competent, modish way but he’s not trying to change any games. Nor, to be fair, are the singers. The first question for any Spice Girl co-writer or producer should be how you accomodate four (or five) very different voices, and give the sense that this is a group, not just women passing a mic around. The early singles managed it impeccably – even “Spice Up Your Life!” brazened it through. On, “Holler”, a few background coos aside, there’s none of that feeling. “Holler” is no disaster, it’s just an okay R&B single with sub-par vocalists. The track bumps politely to its end: there’s the feeling of a duty having been done, but no remaining chemistry or spark.
The audible “will this do?” of “Holler” at least gets the answer “yeah”, which is more than I could say for “Let Love Lead The Way”, the group’s return to the soft psychological slowie mode of “Mama” or “Goodbye”. It’s feeble – there was a grain of the specific in “Viva Forever”, “2 Become 1” or any of the earlier Spice ballads that gave the songs life. “Let Love” is pillowy and puffed-up, the group – their vocal weakness as obvious as it’s ever been – dealing with big, airy questions in winsome fashion: “Why is there joy? Why is there pain? Why is there sunshine and the rain?”. You can safely bet that whatever the answers to these profound questions, they won’t be found on the forgotten half of a footnote hit by a knackered band that sounds like it can’t even work out why it exists. The song offers its own, depressing response: “No matter what, we must go on.” The Spice Girls made two fine number ones that could have ended their era. Here, finally, it’s ended for them.
Score: 3
[Logged in users can award their own score]
maybe it’s due to Geri’s departure or the others ‘maturing’ as artistes but these songs are dreary and devoid of personality. The production lacks any signature features and so the songs become forgettable and generic mush. Maybe it would have been more interesting if Geri had stayed and they had done a Spice version of the White Album
There are a lot of things about this single and the Forever album that are decidedly odd. That there should have been a third Spice Girls album isn’t unreasonable, indeed one suspects the label would have demanded one. I suppose the Spice Girls deserve some credit for actually releasing a new studio album when they could probably have got away with a Greatest Hits containing a few new songs (incidentally a Spice Girls compilation wasn’t released until 2007).
Forever wasn’t billed as a farewell album and even with solo singles being released left right and centre they were trying to project a business as usual attitude. It would have been far more sensible to sign off properly with one last single emphasising the friendship never ends whatever the future may hold message.
But they didn’t do this. They released Holler instead (I don’t recall ever hearing Let Love Lead The Way).
From the title alone you know you have a problem. Part of the Spice Girls’ appeal was that they were determinably made in Britain and yet here they are with a song titled after a predominantly American expression. Why? The answer is fairly obvious; Mel B – her solo career already vanishing down the plughole – was making a desperate tilt to establish herself as an RnB superstar. In doing so she used not only her former bandmates (the fact that Mel C mined a further single from the Northern Star album shows her commitment to the Forever project) but also the Spice Girls’ still loyal teenage fanbase. For me this makes Holler a vile, cynical record.
Sales wise this did 103,000 in its opening week, the same as A1 did with Take On Me (wikipedia doesn’t quote the exact sale). If they’d gone head to head with Beautiful Day U2 would have pipped them. With one exception had Holler come out any other week between now and the rest of the year they wouldn’t have hit the top. More incredibly Forever would only get to number two, beaten by the act up next. Even two years before that would have been unthinkable.
Holler did at least feature Mel C’s 11th number one appearance, a record for a female artist then. It also had the same top ten trajectory 1-3-10 as Forever Love had four years before. That song was an artist badly misjudging his public and paying the price, now the act who dethroned Gary Barlow went the same way.
They over-saturated the market with their own solo stuff.. so whilst their previous group singles were (for better or worse) “events” this just seemed to appear – and quickly disappear – in between a myriad of Solo Spice Product. That it’s perfunctory R’n’B-by-numbers with no personality didn’t help it either.
Case in point – a couple of months after this was released, the Music Channels were playlisting “Feel So Good” by Mel B (still my own personal favourite Spice Solo Single – full of a seemingly genuine joie de vivre) – but (until I paid sufficient attention) I assumed it was the follow-up to this #1 rather than the mediocre “Tell Me” which had made #4 only four weeks before Holler hit #1 (and already fallen out of the Top 40).
The truth is the girls were paying more attention to their stuttering solo careers that they were the new Spice Girls record… a rather odd way of going ‘down the dumper’, but they were trailblazers after all.
Basically, a cast-off from “The Writing’s On The Wall”, with the character washed out, and that doesn’t play to the performers’ strengths at all (indeed, it is largely unaware of them). A pale imitation of what other Children were doing better, and an astonishing crash to earth, only surpassed in mistakenness by the much later comeback single. (Yes, LLLTW is weaker than “Holler”) Overall, a curious misstep, one that shrinks the Spice Girls almost to the status of bit-players or producers’ toys – shocking, given what they had been, and what they had stood for not so long before.
3 for Holler, 2 for LLLTW, averaging down to 2 overall. Poor.
From ‘Stop’ and ‘Viva Forever’ to this sludge. ‘Holler’ could be anybody, any third rate post Spice knock off, could issue this and it would probably linger around the top ten. The fact the almighty Spices did shows just how far they’d fallen.
Why wasn’t there a follow up single? A Jan release would probably have scraped them another number one wouldn’t it?
Another 3 from me – would have been a 4 for basic technical competence and inoffensive blandness, but the sheer pointlessness of a vocal four-piece releasing two tracks with such openly feeble vocals grated on me. The last few months of 2000 have been a weird three-way mixture of songs I know once I’ve heard them (which I’d expect to be the default), songs I know from the first bar and songs I could swear I’ve never heard before in my life; this is in the third category.
The most interesting part of this song is probably the producer namechecking himself.
How much of a thing was that in the 2000s? I know that once we get to the other end of the decade we’ll get a twist on this with producers being namechecked by the artists – a RedOne-produced bunny from early 2009 springs instantly to mind – but the only other example I can recall of a producer being namechecked on the record without being the credited artist was Stargate’s remix of “Dancing in the Moonlight.” I don’t doubt there were plenty of others, maybe even including a few impending bunnies, I just can’t think of any!
That’s more interesting than “Holler” anyway.
I’d strongly recommend that anybody with a passing interest in the Spice Girls and pop music in general seek out David Sinclair’s brilliant book ‘Wannabe’ which details their rise and fall with real respect and detail. The chapters around ‘Forever’ make for depressing reading indeed. The record is what it sounds like – an exercise in contractual obligation from a distracted and fast-splintering group. Emma and Victoria remained somewhat committed, though they were adrift without Geri’s vision and chutzpah or Simon Fuller’s guiding hand. Mel’s B and C were both much more invested in their solo projects, with Mel C in particular wanting no part in it all. The description of their album launch party – which ends with Mel C ranting hypocritically to the press about Westlife and Steps, Mel B verbally abusing the 3AM girls, Emma in tears and Victoria desperately trying to hold everything together – is a disaster to rival any of the great rock follies.
The promotion for the record – such as it was – is a testament to how ill-conceived it all was. A few group appearances to promote Holler in the UK and Europe, barely anything in America (where it sank without trace) and nothing at all after album release week. It was a depressing time to be a fan.
For all that, I think Holler as a song gets a bum wrap. It’s certainly lacking in the warmth and personality that made the imperial hits so impactful, but it’s a more than decent stab at the genre, and I suspect had a Toni Braxton type recorded it, it’d be far better regarded today. (Although yes, it’s fair to say Toni Braxton would have sounded much more comfortable in it than Mel C and Victoria do in their rather shrill ad-libs that almost ruin the song).
Let Love Lead The Way is a bit wet, but again it’s far from a disaster. It’s no Viva Forever, but it’s a fair sight better than ‘Headlines’, and I really like Emma’s middle-eight. I’d give Holler a 7 and Let Love.. a 6, although the depressing context would probably knock them both down a point or two, and the Spice Girls narrative certainly isn’t elevated in any way by their presence. A group that burst onto the scene so forcefully deserved better than to fizzle out so half-heartedly. I’m not sure there was any way they could have really made it work post-Geri, but it’s a real shame to see one of the all time great pop groups fizzle out in such ignominious circumstances. I’ll be forever greatful to the 2012 Olympics for granting them – and me – the closure they really deserved. (I’ll just pretend the musical never happened).
In Fall 2000 I was a semi-regular viewer of a local Washington, DC-produced music show that aired five nights a week. It featured videos and occasional live performances and interviews of lesser known (often local) acts. Each night of the week was a different theme: Latin, Urban, Rock. And there was also “World” night highlighting obscure (to the US) international acts. Some I remember were Coco Lee (Hong Kong), L’Arc-en-Ciel (Japan), and the Doves (you’ve probably heard of them)…..
Anyway, one of the videos that unexpectedly entered the rotation for a couple weeks was “Holler”. With all due respect to the acts in the previous paragraph, it was quite a comedown for a group that seemed ready to take over the world a couple years prior. This was my only exposure to the track which was clearly a weak imitation of D——‘s C—-, and missed the Hot 100 entirely. And the album fizzled out at #39 – probably would’ve been worse if not for clueless parents buying it during the Christmas season.
I’ve mentioned before how compressed the Spices’ heyday was in the US – from nowhere to everywhere to universally hated in about 12 months during 1997-98. And I hated them too, although I’m having trouble figuring out why. Too much hype? Too counter to what I considered “cool” during my mid 20’s? In retrospect, their peak output was actually quite good. And they were interesting characters and, um, rather attractive to boot. What was I thinking? Classic example of a group ripe for a two-decades-later re-evaluation.
(not H/LLLTW though…that should stay in the past…4/10)
I hadn’t heard Let Love Lead The Way Before. Quite feeble. Also it’s probably just me, but for some reason it seemed to contain strong echoes of We’re Sending Our Love Down The Well.
The lyrics would be believable for a Smack The Pony parody of a girl band song.
I echo #8 in seriously recommending David Sinclair’s Wannabe to anybody with an interest in the Spice Girls, pop music in general, pop culture, fandom or marketing.
Think Tom’s review here a little harsh, but I was only expecting this. Although I am biased by an enduring childhood affection for the group, Holler certainly continues to receive an enthusiastic reception whenever aired in e.g. a gay club (perhaps a broad generational thing for late-20s/early-30s men reliving the pop of their teens, perhaps specifically the novelty of hearing one of the lesser-celebrated Spice Girls numbers out in public).
With regards to the change of musical direction, I sense the Spice Girls would have been damned if they did, damned if they didn’t. I can’t seriously imagine them returning with another album of Stannard & Rowe and Absolute in 2000. Firstly because Geri had recorded a pretty decent solo record with Absolute in 1999. Secondly because that particular sound, while still fuelling the careers of Five and S Club 7, had by 2000 been sidelined for the industrial-sounding blockbuster pop of Max Martin. Neither, though, can I imagine the Spice Girls a natural fit with the Cheiron sound.
So, r&b. Not immediately associated with the Spice Girls, but not a wildly bizarre idea for their third album. R&B was favoured by Victoria and Mel B; Emma was also a fan and Mel C had (by the time of Forever’s release) enjoyed a number one with Left Eye.
Also, as much as the Spice Girls are remembered as a pure pop group, listen again to debut album Spice. The influence of r&b is clear on a good seven of its ten tracks. This was almost erased with Spiceworld, a bolder excursion into technicolor pop miscellany and pastiche.
Forever’s fortunes weren’t helped by the splintering factions of the group (Mel C flaunting her lack of investment with impunity, pissing the others off no end; rumours of a growing divide between Mel B and Victoria) and the fact that Rodney Jerkins, as the main producer they were working with (his Darkchild team contribute eight tracks; Jam & Lewis two), was undoubtedly saving his best tracks for Destiny’s Child, Michael Jackson, Brandy and Whitney.
The Girls’ vocals throughout the album are technically a clear step up from the previous two. The producers had clearly worked them hard. Emma’s vocals on Let Love Lead the Way, particularly live on the reunion tour, are reliably lovely: warm, precise, characterful. Jerkins said after Forever that he would have loved to have done a solo album with Emma.
What’s lost in large, however, is the sense of fun, chaos and occasional moment of endearing amateurism that permeates their earlier work. This may be the polished professionalism of the production as much as the vocals.
The Spice Girls’ final number one was a death knell for the group. Mel C and Victoria weren’t interested in releasing a further single, touring or carrying on into 2001. Operations were quietly wound down, no announcements required.
Speaking of death knells, isn’t the Forever album artwork forebodingly funereal? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Spicegirls-forever.jpg The Holler artwork (top of page) was so much nicer.
A couple of curios related to this era that might intrigue anybody who hasn’t listened much from the dustier corners of the Spice canon:
If This Love, a pre-Spice demo. Some of its lyrics form the basis of Let Love Lead the Way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqufvMGM1OU
Right Back at Ya, pop version, leaked earlier this year. Darkchild album’s rendition is a watery r&b number; this is the vastly superior original, recorded with Elliot Kennedy (who had worked with the Girls on arguably their finest record, Say You’ll Be There). Kennedy was rather miffed at his version getting the boot as it was (paraphrased quote) “the funkiest thing I had ever done”, blaming r&b-obsessed Virgin A&R Ashley Newton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtHITeqvrmc
Were there any further singles of the third album? By trying to keep bang up to date the Spices just drew attention to how passe they had become by this time.
Naming the track ‘Holler’ seemed a clueless move as well. I don’t mean anything by this, but they all sound very self-conscious using such an Americanism (mind you their former bandmate would be heard singing the phrase ‘ gimme some gasoline ‘ even more unconvincingly on one of her subsequent singles). Even with a different title however this would still be a plodding, trend-chasing track which I haven’t heard even once in the 15 years between its release and today.
#11 Yes, this is what I was trying to get at in the review – the group were in a real bind: too much personality and individual identity for a generic makeover to work, and none of the pop genres on offer were a great fit for what they were good at. With hindsight the internal divisions would have sunk them anyway, but even a united Spice Girls would have had “difficult third album” troubles.
Their best bet might have been R&B-inflected pop, but a much wider range of producers, and a brief to create a hybrid between the chaotic cameraderie of previous Spice music and R&B. But their other fatal problem was how far their stock had fallen in the USA, where they were seen as a total fad. The telling Jerkins comment on “Holler” – meant approvingly – is the one about how when people heard it they couldn’t believe who it was. So they were working with people who had zero regard for what made them good, and who saw their group identity as a problem to be mixed out of the track. You can’t get to good pop music that way.
@8 “Emma and Victoria remained somewhat committed, though they were adrift without Geri’s vision and chutzpah”
I remember encountering some scepticism here when I suggested that Geri was the John Lydon / Rotten of the Spice Girls. Glad to see I wasn’t entirely making that up.
#13 – sounds a bit like Jam & Lewis’s reinvention of the Human League with Crash and “Human” – the latter of which was huge in the US, although not here. So it can work, sort of, at least in the short term. See also the Corrs and Mutt Lange.
#12 ‘If You Wanna Have Some Fun’ was lined up as the second single complete with cobbled-together ‘backstage’ promo video, but ultimately scrapped. Probably for the best as I can’t imagine it would have done particularly well. For what it’s worth, I do think it’s probably the best and most ‘Spice’ song on Forever, though it’s still clearly inferior to anything from their first two albums.
https://youtu.be/4FOc1OOYFH8
This week’s top 3 was an interesting one – all new entries that could be considered ‘last gasp’ releases by artists who’d seen better days.
At #2 was I’m Over You – the last major hit for Martine McCutcheon and arguably her best, although it’s very of its time and has quite a shrill vocal. She was possibly aiming too young after the tasteful MOR of her debut, and her second album underperformed in the charts. She briefly grazed the top ten in early 2001 with a slightly more on-brand cover of Donna Summer’s ‘On The Radio’, and never troubled the singles chart again thereafter.
At #3 was ‘She Bangs’ by Ricky Martin, an unintentionally comical re-write of ‘Livin la Vida Loca’ that still seems to illicit gales of laughter whenever I remind people around my age of its existence. He’s still around and presumably still a big star in Latin America, but aside from being vocally steamrollered by obnoxious human foghorn Christina Aguilera on ‘Nobody Wants To be Lonely’ (#4 2001) he never really made much of an impact as a recording artist on these shores after this.
The observation about the “grain of the specific” in earlier Spice ballads is perfect, and pinpoints why Let Love Lead The Way is never going to engage. Same with the sense that Holler is women passing the mic rather than a group. So, yeah, well done there.
I still bought this. I mean, I did like Holler however unassuming and just-too-consciously tasteful it was, but I never went back to it after its week had passed. Shame about legends signing off with a damp squib.
#18 agreed on both counts, these are astute observations. There’s a sense that Holler could be sung by just about anybody and, thinking of the Spice brand, on surface level it almost feels wrong that they’re the ones to do it: the Spice Girls of 1996 wouldn’t have been caught dead boasting that they wanted to make a man scream with pleasure.
That said, I still like it a lot, and the angle at which you could think it catering towards a man’s gratification is really only tenable from the line “I wanna make you holler”. The lyrics aren’t devoid of edge, with references to “my fantasy room” and a petition that “you’ve gotta show me boy, ’cause nothing comes for free”. Even when they verge into slightly uncomfortable territory, it’s still (just about) on the protagonist’s terms: “I’ll be your fantasy, everything you want you will find in me…if you play my game”.
#15 The Human League’s Human, of course, was nattily ripped off by the Spice Girls, with Mama.
Re: producers mentioning themselves, Timbaland does that on Missy Elliot’s Beat Biters from 1999. In fact, the Jerkins bit sounds very like Timbaland’s interjections (as if talking through studio monitors) that he peppered his productions with around this era
Not a lot to disagree with here. “Holler” could have been recorded by just about anybody and it would not have made a blind bit of difference. The only thing I find intriguing is what might Geri have done with R&B flavoured material like this? I suspect her vocal talents and forceful personality would have provided the anchovy to top this rather insipid lemon sorbet of a song. On the flip…”Let Love Lead The Way”is simply filler. I never knowingly heard it before, and I very much doubt I’ll ever hear it again. LLLTW must be a future Pointless answer. (4)
Re 22: There was a Pointless round of Spice Girls anagrams, though sadly I can’t remember any of them now. All Popular entries, I believe, as TOPS would’ve been too easy and HELD IN SEA too obscure.
Hmmm. EEC MOB 21 sounds like a Grotesque-era Fall song.
I THOU YOU HOODY WANKER?
#22 I have more affection than most for Geri’s voice, but the idea of her on a contemporary American r&b record is not an appealing one.
For all that Forever is not a Spice Girls record in spirit, on a technical vocal level the other four are – a dodgy moment or two aside – more than able to pull off an album of this type of material. Sure, there’s no Beyoncé, but there doesn’t need to be.
A new bean
Beauty Horse Yell
Favor Revive
Mo Touch..
A small question about the Sinclair book. There are two versions listed on Amazon, am original one and one with a picture of the 2007 reunion on the front. Is this just an updated version of the original text?
Yes, they’re the same. Go with whichever is cheaper!
It’s ripe for an update; the book stops in 2004.
It was very rare for an incentive-led Virgin sales guy to talk anything down.
Yet, as I stood behind my counter that November, he cautioned. He warned not to over-order the single, he warned to take care with the album.
I mean, we knew. We all knew. The game was up. The moment had passed, the excitement was gone. But you’d think that the label guy would nonetheless try and shill.
No. There would be no second single. There would be no second chance. This album was dead on arrival. The band, or the management, had become toxic, poisonous. It was over.
Then again, a short story..
I was in Asda about 6 months after, and there was a big dispenser with copies of “Spice Girls Forever” by the tonload, all on sale for £1.
The next day I was there again for some things I’d missed, and all of the CDs were gone.
Apologies if anybody has mentioned this but Mel B’s solo debut album had been released about a month before Forever and tanked at 28. Holler itself would be the last number one single by three out of the four Spices (the fourth had their solo ace to play but we’ll come to that in due course). Interestingly of the other three it was Victoria who came closest with a number 3 in 2003 while Melanie C did worst with a number seven (although if you want to be a clever clogs you could argue she eventually crops up on a charity conglomerate).
One can only speculate on how a second single might have done. If Holler did 103,000 and with the parent album already available you’re probably looking at a first week sale of approx 65,000-70,000. It may have been enough for a number one in the very quiet weeks in late January early February but it would have been a very close thing.
I’m glad they didn’t. Their hearts were far from in it, and following an almost unblemished chart record the relative indignity of a new entry at number 8 (or whatever) wouldn’t have looked good for fans, or felt good for the group.
Perhaps if the album had done any better the label or management could have persuaded them to release another single. They needn’t necessarily have required the Girls’ cooperation, of course – the If You Wanna Have Some Fun video was obviously put together for a reason. There were also rather brilliant Thunderpuss and Jonathan Peters remixes of Tell Me Why: http://www.discogs.com/Spice-Girls-Tell-Me-Why/release/3018847
Perhaps Virgin decided none of it was worth the bother after Forever peaked at no.2 behind Westlife’s album.
Westlife’s first ten singles, incidentally, follow the pattern of the Spice Girls’ first ten exactly: six number ones in a row, a number two (Stop / What Makes a Man) and then three more number ones.
12… True, Geri shoehorned in some Americanisms too… Targeting the US audience with lyrics like
“Gimme some, gimme some gasoline”
and
“Have a nice day as Americans say”.
(Quite confused by the line “gimme some sweet FA”.)
Also, is this the first song to rhyme the words “holler” and “follow”? Genuine question.
#32 I would love to believe it is a reference to Sweet Female Attitude
Oops, I made an error at comment #31; Westlife had a run of seven number ones before their first no.2 (I’d left out the Mariah duet).
A sad, ignominious end for the last gang in town. The Great R&B Swindle. Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?
What pop groups have genuinely gone out on a high? Not many I guess since people tend not to walk away from fun/profit. The Police, The Jam and The Specials in Popular terms, though More Specials is far from universally loved. The Beatles at a pinch if we ignore putting out Let It Be cos they needed the cash. I can’t bring to mind anyone Pop with a capital P but then it’s not my forte.
#36 Wham! (?)
@36, Tommy Mack. Japan went out with Tin Drum and the Oil on Canvas live album (both great). But maybe they count more as pop one-hit-wonders than as pop successes going out in style. VU with Loaded would count if it had sold more!
And then there are the death-interrupted: The Doors, Joy Division, Nirvana, Jeff Buckley, Winehouse, and maybe a few others were close to creative highs.
In-group dynamics are probably key when successful bands do split. Paul Weller split the Jam, rather to the surprise of the other two if the sleeve notes of Snap! are anything to go by; relationships between Jerry Dammers and the rest of the Specials were always a bit delicate AIUI; and the Police never could stand one another. If Madness had split when Mike Barson left in 1984 that would have been going out on a high.
Roxy Music went out with a number 1 album, Avalon.
(Though the third and final single from it, Take a Chance with Me, peaked at 26.)
The Go-Betweens went out on a high twice, when they split shortly after “16 Lovers Lane”, and then again, much later, when the premature death of Grant McLennan ensured that what was quite possibly their most accomplished album overall, “Oceans Apart” would not be followed up.
(Not that the general mass public bought any of them, but still…)
The KLF (qua the KLF) surely walk this.
Take That, the Libertines, My Bloody Valentine, though all three have since reunited. I’d even throw in an unpopular shout for Led Zeppelin.
Bernard Butler managed to quit Suede before their peak with him, which might be unique.
Wham I thought of as soon as I’d posted my comment… VU did Squeeze after Lou Reed quit and The Doors did three long deleted albums after Jim Morrison died. Reportedly not very good. Take That’s last days are forever writ in my mind as Gary Barlow singing Teen Spirit in PVC pants. Led Zep seems a bit of a stretch too, kudos to them for not carrying on without Bonzo but I doubt many Zep fans would claim their last two albums as favourites.
Not trying to pour cold piss on people’s suggestions I promise!
I could say At The Drive In or Test-Icicles but we’re stretching the definition of pop to breaking point there!
#43 Siobhan left the Sugababes; they re-emerged and went on to have six number ones (we’re about 18 Popular months away from discussing the first).
Sorry to go off on a tangent but as this is the last time we get to discuss the Spice Girls as a whole, can I ask: When Geri left, weren’t there plans to replace her with a new member in a desperate attempt to salvage some pride? I’m sure there was talk about someone more “indie” coming in (by that I mean in the same way Kylie was “indie” on Impossible Princess) or someone more R&B street tuff to compete with the TLC/D******’s C**** types..
I don’t know but I do remember a ‘behind the scenes’ doc where a sound/stage check was done with five different girls whose job was to ‘understudy’ the spicers, so I did wonder if ‘Oriental spice’ or one of the others would get promoted. I guess if the group were more a managerial construct it might have happened, and they might still be going ad infinitum..
There were tabloid rumours about Dannii Minogue or Louise Nurding coming in, but I imagine this was a load of rubbish.
Simon Fuller later said that if he’d still been managing the group he would have liked to have set up an audition to replace Geri (of course, he went on to create Pop Idol). I can imagine the other four sacking him at the suggestion, had they not already done so.
4/10 for Holler, 2/10 for Let Love Lead…so an average of 3/10 for me.
I bought this, though rarely played it and can’t stand ‘Holler’ now, long forgotten. Strangely though I do catch myself at times singing the ‘Let Love Lead The Way’ chorus.
I think it is the philosophical nature of it.