Jun 14

THE MANIC STREET PREACHERS – “If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next”

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#799, 5th September 1998

tolerate “You can interpret the lyrics,” huffed a Nazi goon caught nicking this song for the BNP’s website, “any way you want.” The specific double meaning of “if I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists” eludes me, but it’s true enough that the Manic Street Preachers’ lyricists had a taste for the oblique. Simple polemic was rarely their style: on their early records they favoured harsh, dense word-blocks, crushed by the transition to song into something barely singable, their uneasy imagery delivered by James Dean Bradfield as a compressed bark. But for all their rough treatment, the words mattered – for The Holy Bible the band took out double-page ads printing the record’s scorched, self-lacerating lyrics in full. They made records About Things, things number ones only occasionally break bread with: self-harm, depression, the decline of class consciousness. And here, apparently, the Spanish Civil War.

But one of those things is not like the others. Why on earth make, in 1998, a record about the Spanish Civil War? Old battles had never been the Manics’ territory: they preferred live issues, current problems of culture and psychology. A song praising the Republicans in the Spanish conflict is not addressing a live issue: and, to be honest, there weren’t a lot of obvious 1998 analogies you could make for it. “If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next” is a magnificent title, but tolerate what? What line were the band drawing? Was it all a better-read version of Father Ted’s omniprotest: Down With This Sort Of Thing?

So I’d like to suggest that something more is going on here, but before digging into what, it’s worth asking how we got to this in the first place. “If You Tolerate This” is a fanbase record, as surely as anything by Boyzone is. The Manics had been the most startling beneficiaries of the post-Oasis interest in British bands, hitting form and accessibility at just the right time for big, gestural rock to succeed. And to be horribly cynical about it, the tragedy of Richey Edwards established their bona fides as a serious band at the same time as his absence meant they could stumble into the mainstream without lyrics like “He’s a boy / You want a girl so cut off his cock” chewing up their column inches. “A Design For Life” was a remarkable single, a band pushed by guilt and circumstance into speaking plainly, seizing their platform and using it. They released it as a group with sympathy and a small, utterly devoted audience: they left it a band with a huge, solid fanbase.

It made “If You Tolerate This…” – first single off the follow-up album – into a big moment, the kind of release other singles shuffle out the way of. But as is often the case, the fanbase flexed its muscles a record too late. “If You Tolerate This…” has none of the painful confidence of “A Design For Life”. It opens brilliantly – cold, Radiohead-style bursts of treated guitar, pulsing out and back like the respiration of some great, dying machine. But once it gets going and the strings and solos kick off, it’s the band settling into the cement shoes of lugubrious arena rock – footwear they found all too comfortable.

So while it’s lovely to see them at Number One, what’s initially disappointing is that for the first time in their career, it didn’t feel like the group were over-reaching themselves. That had been a large part of their appeal. The earliest Manics made much of a love for Public Enemy and Guns’n’Roses, but the process they applied to those influences was pure indie pop: make a Quixotic attempt to match your idols with a tenth of their budget and technique, and trust that something inspiring comes out of it. They stood in relation to glam metal as Orange Juice stood to Chic and disco – a doomed, glorious tilt at a form that might end up wonderful in a different way.

Everything Must Go took the same trick and used it for stadium rock – gambling, successfully, that rough-hewn attempts at anthemic rock and thoughtful, sorrowful lyrics would rub well together. But it meant that when “If You Tolerate This…” came out, the surprise had become expectation. The band, inevitably, chortled about “subverting the mainstream”. But the idea of the Manic Street Preachers having a hit with a single about the Spanish Civil War felt right: was, instead, instantly comfortable and appealing enough by itself that the weary reality of it could be shrugged off.

What redeems the record – lets it wring dignity from tedium – is that this gap between reputation and reality is exactly what the song is wrestling with. The crucial moment in “If You Tolerate This…” is the breakdown before the final chorus – “And on the street tonight an old man prays / With newspaper cuttings of his glory days”. It’s picking up on the “monuments put from pen to paper” part earlier – the way remembrance of heroism, even well-meant remembrance, turns into romance and abandons the messy subjectivity of the lives in question. And even as it acknowledges this, the song has been playing around in that romance – the title slogan, the rabbits quote, the totems of a long-gone, righteous struggle.

It’s easy to see why this might resonate with the Manic Street Preachers. They had become a group defined by a gap: a vanished friend who was turning into stories and slogans himself. In a season of youth in the charts, “If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next” was less a subversive gesture, more a memento mori from a band that had finally found their place and were settling into a dependable success. Listen to Bradfield’s despairing, exhausted “aaaand” as he slides into the chorus – “If you tolerate this then your children will be next” is a warning, but not an avoidable one. History itself – the process of sorting and discarding, of turning fighters into forgotten men while their words survive – is the “this” that cannot be tolerated. But always is.



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  1. 61
    fivelongdays on 25 Jun 2014 #

    @55 – I’d argue that is a classic bit of Pricest Indie Kiddery designed to appeal to NME readers – the Manics do not nod to glam metal, they headbang to it.

    Listen to Generation Terrorists, and discover a band who worship/rip off GnR, Poison, Motley Crue, Hanoi Rocks and Tigertailz to name but five. Listen to The Holy Bible – is that the sound of The Smiths, or a compressed, despairing, Skid Row (This Is Yesterday=I Remember You), consider how you’d respond if Faster Pussycat released a song called Condemned to Rock’N’Roll, or if Dogs D’Amour wrote a song which went ‘People like you need to fuck people like me’…the list goes on.

    Pastiche? This is not the work of a jangleist cool indie ‘ Oh we always liked dance, yah’ public schoolboys, this is rock’n’roll, the glory of glamour, the last gang in town stance of G’n’R (and – yes! – The Clash), the masculinity of Public Enemy fused through the androgynous aggression of glam metal. Statement beyond Statement, no neshness here (even La Tristesse Durera – their alleged nod to baggy – sounds to my ears like they’re ripping off Bon Jovi’s Keep The Faith, a second hand nod to The Only One I Know), just pure Rock’n’Roll with brains. And they are at their best when they embrace their fundamental Rock’n’Roll, no matter what the IndieChildren say.

    (TL;DR – When the Manics rock, they are supreme. When they don’t – parts of TTMIT, the entirety of the dire Lifeblood, most of MSP Lies, they’re a bit blegh).

  2. 62
    skpow on 25 Jun 2014 #

    #61 you’re talking to someone who owns records by Cinderella and the Quireboys and saw the Manics support Jovi in Milton Keynes. I may have not been clear or you may have misunderstood me, but my point was that in their heart they know they could have been those glam metal fans in the pot noodle factory. Isn’t that where flicker ended up, of memory serves. And I think flicker has said he’d never have fit in with what the band became, that they did move on from those roots. But I’m old now. My heart’s like a wheel and my head’s just a stone i got my memories ain’t got no home. Falling apart at the seams.

  3. 63
    Tom on 25 Jun 2014 #

    How was their reception in the metal press, FiveLongDays?

  4. 64
    Mark M on 25 Jun 2014 #

    So about the Spanish Civil War… for a chunk of the British (and American) left, it’s remained a touchpoint, mostly because of that idea that idealistic young men of all classes went over there and made a stand in fight that wasn’t theirs – or rather (as the song title suggests) wasn’t theirs yet. Even if that fight turned out to be extremely messy, as described in Homage To Catalonia (the only George Orwell book I’ve ever liked).
    I certainly remember having discussions about with people in the 1990s, who wanted a moment like that for our generation, and suggesting (intolerantly) to them that they could go to East Timor or Sarajevo if they really felt that strongly. In the ’80s, as recounted in another Ken Loach film, some did go to Nicaragua, and many came back predictably disillusioned.

    Now, of course, we’ve got members of another generation slipping off to fight in distant civil wars, and we’re mostly pretty uncomfortable with that.

    For me, La Guerra Civil is rather more personal, because my grandfather was an officer in the Spanish army who was killed on the third day by colleagues from his own regiment who had risen against the republic and were trying to seize the barracks and its arms. My uncles, then teenagers, joined the Socialist militias, and both ended up spending years in prison. Being on the losing side shaped the family history, it’s fair to say. And for a lot of people in Spain, it’s not a dead issue at all – Franco was still alive in my lifetime, and a significant number of Spanish novels and films still deal with the war and its aftermath. And there are still survivors, like one of my uncles.

  5. 65
    skpow on 25 Jun 2014 #

    #63 holy bible review by kerrang is herehttp://www.thisisyesterday.com/ints/thb-kerr.htm

  6. 66
    fivelongdays on 25 Jun 2014 #

    @63 Unrelentingly positive! TIMT’s best review was a 5k from Kerrang!, while the likes of Metal Hammer et al very supportive throughout their career

    @62 – Pretty sure Flicker was a punk – major into The Clash, I understand the bands love of Glam Metal is what pissed him off. (Still makes me giggle when the NME talk J&MC about early Manics when they were Glam Metal in every way (IIRC Nick Wire is credited as Nikki – as in Sixx – on the back cover of New Art Riot)

  7. 67
    wichitalineman on 25 Jun 2014 #

    re 66: Well… Nicky Wire has also said that him and Richey wanted the Manics to sound like McCarthy, James and Sean wanted them to sound like GnR, so they settled on McCarthy’s lyrics (and indeed their rotten scanning) with GnR’s music.

    I rememember “stoneswhopistolsclash” as their quickfire list of inflences, maybe on Snub, later amended to to “stoneswhoaxlslash… not the Clash anymore”.

  8. 68
    fivelongdays on 25 Jun 2014 #

    The point is that the Manics influences were ROCK, rather than the Beatles/Byrds/Beach Boys trinity that sustained Indie. And the Manics are – unlike, say The Verve – an Actual Rock Band Who Rocked.

  9. 69
    skpow on 25 Jun 2014 #

    #68 god yeah, you’ve only got to listen to GT. Slash and burn is a glorious metal track full of great rock guitar licks. Where the Manics and Indie crossed over was the Rolling Stones. But yeah, they rock. One of the best live acts of their (our) generation. Only bad gig I’ve seen from them was Glastonbury 94, the sound was awful and the crowd was worse.

  10. 70
    23 Daves on 25 Jun 2014 #

    Well, this is a pain in the arse. I’ve been looking forward to discussing this entry for ages, but it’s finally cropped up right at the very point where I’m so snowed under with work I can barely think straight (apologies in advance for any typos, poorly expressed ideas or incoherence) and a lot of the points I wanted to make have been made already.

    But still, the most recent comments above do cover one issue I wanted to get on to. That’s the fact that the Richey-era Manics never really sat easily with me. I liked the IDEA of them enormously, the lyrical subject matters, the interviews, the slogans… to a slightly depressive teenage boy fascinated by left-wing political literature (so much so that I’d stick around at college after hours just to stay in the library and read stuff that wasn’t otherwise easily available) they seemed so much as if they should have been a revelation. In reality, though, musically they were too Rock for me, and not even Rock in the scuzzed up Pixies sense of the word, just ROCK as in the kind of stuff you might have heard on FM/Revolver records, only with better lyrics. I got into enormous trouble with a Manics fan I once knew for comparing the cheapest and trashiest of their output (“Repeat”) to “The Comic Strip’s Bad News with two Colin Gregsons in the line-up”.
    “THEY SOUND NOTHING LIKE THAT!” he thundered.
    They bloody did at times, to me anyway. But then I never really understood the appeal of that kind of music.

    Still, my faith in them was enough that I did actually buy “Generation Terrorists” and “The Holy Bible”. I can’t remember the last time I ever actually listened to either, and I probably should give them away to a charity shop, but I don’t quite have the heart to.

    The Manics at their commercial peak slotted in much more neatly for me. The sweeping, melodramatic strings reminded me of the epic parts of the best Northern Soul ballads (think “Drifter” by Ray Pollard), the lyrics were still interesting enough (initially, at least) and the songs less swathed in soft rock worship. It all finally clicked together for me, the kind of person old school Manics fans probably wouldn’t welcome to a party.

    To be potentially even more controversial, this is probably my favourite single of theirs. Tom and numerous other commenters have pointed out that the emotions of the song seem to pull in two directions, and it’s mainly because of this that I’d stop short of tagging it with the catch-all “stadium anthem” description. It’s a head-hung-low, confused and neurotic sound, tugging back and forth. You can’t punch your fist in the air to this.

    In fact, it’s so conflicting that the first few listens were almost unrewarding. I can remember it being received at the time as a “slow burner”, and that’s exactly how it felt. The first four times I heard it, I was only mildly impressed, but then the fifth listen was the one that opened it up to me completely, and it happened under the most absurd circumstances. I was wandering along Southsea promenade by myself when it blasted out from a radio inside one of the shops (I think that’s right. It sure as hell didn’t come from the funfair, anyway). It was on the last weekend of the year when the weather was hot enough to warrant solo seafront wandering, and I stood and listened to the song while children played on the beach and a bit of a chill developed on the wind. Just the perfect moment to finally have a song making sense, the uncertain feel of weather on the cusp of Summer and Autumn matching the song’s mood perfectly.

    I still play this song regularly, and it’s a 9 from me, I think. Actually, a 10. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me on most of the points I’ve made above, and it’s difficult to have my particular perspective on a band whose fans are often insistent that they peaked on the third album… but so be it.

  11. 71
    swanstep on 26 Jun 2014 #

    The Manics weren’t characters in my world until this entry, so it’s been interesting for me to listen to a whole bunch of their stuff over the past few days. ‘Motorcycle Emptiness’ has been the definite standout track and its parent, GT (or at least its first half; their records all seem to be too long!) is the pick of the albums I’ve listened to.

    GT is very revealing – lots of Van Halen and (pre-Mutt Lange) Def Leppard in their sound at that point. I wonder whether making a designed-to-be US- and world-conquering record with Lange was ever in the cards (and exisst for the Manics now as their great ‘road not taken’)?

    Anyhow, its actual big production notwithstanding there’s something deeply unpolished about all the Manics stuff I’ve listened to: even Motorcycle Emptiness has a weak middle eight that could be a lot better, ‘A Design for Life’ manages to make ‘for’ polysyllabic and just generally needs work on its vocals (some rewriting, more takes, etc.). And so on. It’s all rather frustrating listening really – the Manics’ songs are good but could have been better; the band’s really *got* something but it needed to be worked harder is how it sounds to me. Perhaps they never found their George Martin or Bob Ezrin or Eno who could push them…

    Anyhow, IYTHYCWBN. First few listens, it sounded like a vocally and instrumentally under-powered version of a Muse track such as ‘Sing For Absolution’. On subsequent listens, ‘Sleeping Satellites’ has seemed like a more fitting comparison in the context of Popular, i.e., as something that, like IYTHYCWBN is pretty contemplative for a #1 and but yet also has hooks and surprises in it so you can hear ‘Ah, yes, that’s why it went to #1, and that’s why it’s a damned good record’. IYTHYCWBN doesn’t do that to a listener hence it *is* a UK fanbase record (hence it only made it into the 40s in both Australia and NZ) and not a true win-the-people-over #1 in the vein of Sleeping Satellites.

    So, this is a 6 for me, but I’m very happy to have been finally introduced to the Manics and will continue to explore their discography in the coming months. Yay.

  12. 72
    Shannon on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Great analysis of the Manics! Came over from Phil Sandifer’s Tumblr because I’m a huge Manics fan and they helped me get through a lot of college. I’m an American fan, so I often have a really different perspective on it than the Brits. While I love their earlier stuff, I find I relate much more to their later stuff like Everything Must Go and this whole album as I get older. There’s something about that worn-outness that I can relate to.

    Now, if you want to get into fan base records, that’s Send Away the Tigers, but I love it anyway.

  13. 73
    wichitalineman on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Did they ever consider changing their name? There’s an obvious Joy Division/New Order comparison, with A Design For Life as Ceremony.

  14. 74
    Rory on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Fascinating to hear from people who are new to the Manics, Swanstep @71. Re “manages to make ‘for’ polysyllabic and just generally needs work on its vocals”: the forced scansion of their lyrics used to annoy me, even as an admirer of their work, but eventually I realised that it was one of the key hooks of their songs, drawing my attention every time. In a roundabout way, it might help explain why I’m a fan, at least of their later stuff: the orchestral flourishes and epic sweep of their best late-90s work sounds so odd next to that mangled metre and admittedly sometimes routine rock guitar that the whole feels more interesting than it ought to. Perhaps it’s also why I haven’t got into the early albums, with their G’n’R influences and the rest – a less interesting setting for those vocal tics, maybe. I’m going to take this entry as a cue to go back to those early albums and try them again, though, along with the later ones that didn’t click for me. Send Away the Tigers and Journal for Plague Lovers are probably a lot better than I remember them: they just came out when I was too distracted by new fatherhood to listen to new music properly (even as I habitually kept buying it).

    Looking through their singles discography, I was surprised to see that they missed out on the top spot three times after their next number one. And missed out on the thousandth number one to a reissue! Booo.

    @73 But when could they do it? Would have been embarrassing if Richey had walked through the door refreshed from three years in the wilds of Patagonia.

  15. 75
    BT on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Choruses have never really been an MSP strongpoint, have they? I can think of few that go far beyond the song title sung twice.

  16. 76
    James BC on 26 Jun 2014 #

    #75 They’re slogans! That’s what you do with a slogan, repeat it.

    I was thinking myself, listening to the chorus of this one, that a young Ryan Tedder might have been a fan.

  17. 77
    Rory on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Just realised/wondered: why no Manics pic in the FT banner to go with this?

  18. 78
    Tom on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Steve does the pics when he has time – I looked for a Manics one but I couldn’t find it. So treat them as a delightful bonus (or a way of finding out what obscuro pop stars looked like) rather than a feature :)

    I am sure we’ll have one ready for next time.

  19. 79
    Rory on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Ah, right; they’d been so regular I’d thought you must have done a few years’ worth in advance as part of the recent redesign.

  20. 80
    fivelongdays on 26 Jun 2014 #


    “I am stronger than mensa, Miller and Mailer/I spat out Plath and Pinter/I am all the things that you regret/A truth that washes, that learned how to spell”

    That’s a chorus.

  21. 81
    weej on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Agreed completely with this review. A song I still like and might even put on from time to time, yet it marks the end point of my relationship with the group. A few years later I saw them play at Reading, and just walked away, they were so dull. It didn’t matter, they had tens of thousands of new fans.

    I’d always had a weirdly ambivalent relationship with them though. Generation Terrorists was fantastically exciting, but at the same time bloated and patchy (and sorry to say I still don’t get Motorcycle Emptiness or Little Baby Nothing). Gold Against The Soul was much more consistent – those first three tracks are unbeatable, but it gets hopelessly mired on side B. Then The Holy Bible, of course, which still sounds thrilling, but it’s spoiled a little by Nicky Wire trying to keep up with Richey (for example in Archives of Pain, one of my favourite tracks until I read the stupid lyrics, and PCP – “nowadays I can’t seem to tell the difference” – it’s one thing to skewer left-wing complacency but that just sounds like a guffawing Mail On Sunday columnist.) Nicky was always up to this sort of pointless contrariness – “let’s build a flyover over this shithole,” etc – and it was never appealing. He upped his game after Richey disappeared, but it’s never been enough to get me back into the fold.

    Early-Manics fans were an interesting bunch, I still have a few fanzines somewhere in the loft, generally very interesting, thoughtful, well-read teenagers, much more political and confrontational than goths. A friend went to a fan convention a bit later on and complained that it was a bit too “Have you read The Bell Jar?” “Yes” “It’s good, isn’t it?” “Yes, it is” – but pretentiousness is at least better than lad culture, so that doesn’t sound too bad to me.

  22. 82
    swanstep on 26 Jun 2014 #

    @rory, 74. I’m not sure that it’s the scansion I’m having problems with, but I find I mostly can’t make head nor tails of their lyrics as I hear them in songs – consonants just completely vanish. And without looking up the lyrics online I’d be lost. Yet their lyrics are very meaningful once you track them down! It’s frustrating that they didn’t work on this problem, and, say, get enunciation at least up to Dylan or Joe Strummer or even Thom Yorke standards. I know it sounds slightly patronizing to make such remarks, but it honestly strikes me as a bummer for rock that an evidently really good band ended up not finding the audience world-wide that they could have had.

  23. 83
    Chelovek na lune on 26 Jun 2014 #

    #82 I quite agree with all of that. I think I must have listened to “Yes” dozens of times before I could catch a grip of the lyrics (again: another stunning, unforgettable, chorus, once you’ve heard what they are singing – “ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfallapart is another memorable chorus, and one that is readily comprehensible).

    The combination of slurred enunciation with quite strong valleys accents (found not just in “Yes”, but not uncommonly) means it is easy for the intended meaning to pass the listener by – a great pity, as it is usually worth making the effort…

  24. 84
    wichitalineman on 26 Jun 2014 #

    Re scanning: the Manics were huge fans of McCarthy whose lyrics were always political and scanned badly (see Charles Windsor, which the Manics covered). So I imagine it was intentional, though slightly maddening.

  25. 85
    Rory on 26 Jun 2014 #

    #82 I agree too, the lyrics can be hard to make out. Scansion can be part of that, though. We expect to hear words and sentences stressed in certain ways, and when they’re stressed differently – either to crowbar the lyrics into the music, or because they’re being sung in an unfamiliar accent – they can be harder to make sense of.

  26. 86
    Andrew Farrell on 26 Jun 2014 #

    This discussion makes a lot more sense once I realise that McCarthy and Mclusky are different bands.

  27. 87
    Chelovek na lune on 26 Jun 2014 #

    “Should The Holy Bible Be Banned?”

  28. 88
    23 Daves on 26 Jun 2014 #

    #84 – I was a bit of a fan of McCarthy in my teens. The vinyl gatefold sleeve for “The Enraged Will Inherit The Earth” is interesting in that it present the lyrics as blocks of prose, making no attempt to pretend they’re anything else. When I tried to read the lyrics as the record played, it was a faintly peculiar experience, like listening to someone singing stories from a newspaper or political pamphlet. The breaks in the lines just seemed to crop up as and when the music dictated a pause was necessary. Blew my adolescent mind, it did.

    These days, of course, I tend to think “That would have been an interesting approach to scansion for a few songs, but it seems odd and absurdly restricting to base your entire style around it”.

    FWIW, I don’t think the Manics take it to anything like those lengths.

  29. 89
    Tom on 26 Jun 2014 #

    The only McCarthy song I still own is their attempt to GO BAGGY, “Get A Knife Between Your Teeth”, which I really enjoy partly despite partly because of it’s incredible awkwardness. The issue there isn’t exactly scansion, it’s the sheer discomfort the band seem to have with the genre they’re playing. But I owned The Enraged… too and frankly have played “Get A Knife” about a hundred times more often.

  30. 90
    ace inhibitor on 26 Jun 2014 #

    @88, rhythmically awkward lyrics visually presented as blocks of prose = an old Wire trick (not Nicky)

  31. 91
    Ed on 27 Jun 2014 #

    @88, @90 And occasionally Gang of Four, too. Scansion = repressive instrument of hegemonic late-stage capitalism.

  32. 92
    23 Daves on 27 Jun 2014 #

    #89 – True story about “Get A Knife Between Your Teeth” – Tim Gane didn’t understand how wah-wah pedals worked, so had to get somebody else to operate one for him while he played the guitar. Not too sure how all that came together when they had to play it live (if they ever did). This could be another reason the whole thing sounds a little stilted and awkward. Got to agree with you, though, it is one of their finer tracks.

  33. 93
    Andy M on 27 Jun 2014 #

    @86 Your comment’s made me realise I’ve been making this mistake for years! What with Mclusky being Welsh as well.

  34. 94
    James BC on 27 Jun 2014 #

    Snow Patrol lyrics often read like blocks of prose also – long run-on sentences that seem to only fit the tunes by coincidence (How To Be Dead is a good example). But Gary Lightbody always makes them scan – a quite impressive talent.

    I suppose there must be at least a faint Manics influence there. Not on subject matter of course.

  35. 95
    Another Pete on 27 Jun 2014 #

    The ‘4Real incident’ is easily Norwich’s most rock n’ roll moment.

  36. 96
    fivelongdays on 27 Jun 2014 #

    …as well the most powerful, iconic, significant and beautiful statement in Rock’n’Roll, full stop.

    The Norwich Arts Centre is a disused church. Seems fitting.

  37. 97
    Another Pete on 27 Jun 2014 #

    Ideally there should be a plaque, after all there’s one on the Superdrug in St. Stephen’s Street as the place where Mohammed Ali signed tins of Ovaltine in 1971.

  38. 98
    Ed on 29 Jun 2014 #

    As an example of gormless BNP campaigning that is very funny, but it is still only my second-favourite of theirs, behind this all-time classic: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/4935429/BNP-uses-Polish-Spitfire-in-anti-immigration-poster.html

    Incidentally, late to this, I know, but I agree with all the people spotting contemporary relevance here. Civil war in Europe was an extremely live issue in the mid-90s

  39. 99
    Cumbrian on 30 Jun 2014 #

    This could be long. I’m just going to start and see what happens.

    It’s probably better to discuss the, by this point, dual nature of the Manics fanbase when we get to the first new #1 of 2000 but I will cop to the fact that I was a late comer, never was a mess of eyeliner and spraypaint, and was more likely to dress like the band post Richey’s disappearance. The idea that they left their original fanbase behind was a nonsense as far as I could see though – whenever I saw them live, they were still there, down the front, Nicky was still wearing feather boas, glitter and leopard print with the void to his right beyond James Dean Bradfield being a real point of concentration for the old school fans. Maybe these fans didn’t appreciate the stuff from this era as much (they certainly, in my experience, didn’t appreciate people like me starting to turf up at their gigs) but to my ear, though the music may well have changed, it was just as laceratingly painful as what had gone before.

    Everything Must Go in particular contains such massive reservoirs of survivor guilt, it’s like listening to an open wound. From wanting to run away from it all to the other side of the world, to pleading for the fans’ forgiveness for carrying on, using their lost friend’s lyrics to provide the actual and emotional centre of the album and it all resting on “all I wanna do is live, no matter how miserable it is”. Richey might have carved it into his arm but the whole band is for real. So they weren’t doing the glam metal from their debut or the harsh textures from The Holy Bible. So what? That whole album is them having to move on, carrying the burden with them but also requiring the fresh start – and if the music opened them up to a new audience, then so be it (though even that had the tinge of regret to it – I remember seeing an interview with JDB where he says he wishes he had brought music that sounded more like NIN to fit Richey’s lyrics in his last days, coupled with the reflexive duck of the head and the aversion of the eyes from both interviewer and camera).

    I don’t need the Manics to bear the souls but I think they’re better when they do, directly and honestly. They have written (and continue to write) about events but I like it best when they write about themselves, so Tolerate… doesn’t do it for me. It feels to me like it is groping around for the right lyrical feeling and never really quite gets there. Musically stately after an arresting opening, I found it interesting that Tom identified a gap between reputation and reality there. The Manics’ reputation with their fans is, I think, definitely at odds with the reality as presented.

    On a separate note, it’s interesting to me that comments have picked up on the Manics roots in metal/glam metal. New Bunnied Welsh Band, from memory, made great play of them getting together, not through Britpop, but through a shared love of hard rock/metal. There’s also a bunch of latter day Welsh metal bands (Bullet For My Valentine, Funeral For A Friend and another band, now famous for the most wrong of reasons), which make me think that there is a bit of a thing for metal in the Valleys. I don’t know the area well enough to know whether this is just confirmation bias on my part. Maybe someone more plugged in can let us know whether this is actually the case – and why?

    The Manics not having choruses but having slogans? Maybe. I’d chime in but I would guess you don’t want to see my face, nor hear my words, so why don’t I just


  40. 100
    fivelongdays on 30 Jun 2014 #

    @99 – a love for Rock and Metal isn’t a specific Valleys thing, but there is a very strong trend for die-hard Rockers/Metalheads in small towns, places where cool people don’t live, The Provinces et al. The Manics and New Bunnied Welsh Band are great examples of this.

    (NB this tends to manifest itself among the Provincial Upper-Working and Lower-Middle Classes).

  41. 101
    Cumbrian on 30 Jun 2014 #

    100: If only that were the case in the provincial town I grew up in. I didn’t have much of an ear for Happy Hardcore, Rave, Gabba or any of the other various stripes of electronic music that made up the dominant musical culture in the town I went to school in. I think I mentioned in another thread (probably the Stiltskin one?) that the Britpop/Indie kids basically teamed up with the, very few, Metalheads at my school, shared the same spaces, clubs, etc, so Metal was marginalised even within the part of the culture that was more open to it.

    I’ve a sneaky regard for hard rock/heavy metal to be honest. I quite enjoyed Metallica being on the TV this weekend – probably one of the only times that Metal has had a prime time slot on the BBC since Motorhead were on The Young Ones – and note with interest Bunnied Sheffield Band dropping excerpts of War Pigs into their gigs and associating with QOTSA (who have somehow got big enough to sell arenas out in this country – when I first went to see them, they were only playing places like Koko or Brixton Academy). It feels to me like the time is right for heavier stuff to make a push.

  42. 102
    Fivelongdays on 30 Jun 2014 #

    @101 – to make it clear, what I should have said was ‘very strong trend for Rockers/Metallers to be from small Provincial towns’ – it’s not like they’re overwhelingly rock, but the people who are from places that aren’t allowed to be Cool tend to have that sort of background. It’s people who come from Trendy areas/posh upbringings who tend to dislike it.

  43. 103

    Simon Price is from Barry in Wales, which is neither trendy nor posh, is it (I don’t have much of a feel for South Wales)? As a midlands kids — which was a metal heartland in the 70s, as well as roughly speaking its birthplace — I somewhat agree about metal fandom as a sustained manifestation of defensive anti-cool pride since the early 80s, tho I think it’s shifted and mutated over the years. “Indie” certainly wasn’t a public school thing in the 80s, and has often taken anti-cool form (it’s kind of central to Dolls-fan Morrissey’s ethos) ; and metal and prog often have been pretty popular in posh schools. The post-punk vanguardistas at NME in the late 70s were almost all of them self-taught working class intellectuals/school drop-outs (though of course they’d by then jumped ship from uncool birthplaces like Bangor or Norwich to London).

  44. 104

    … which is a v boring way of saying “it’s complicated”

    #notallposhkids :)

  45. 105
    Tim on 30 Jun 2014 #

    Regarding the scansion in McCarthy’s lyrics, I think Malcolm Eden was always very open about his stylistic debt to Bertolt Brecht, part of which was a pleasure in lines which don’t scan “properly”.

    And I also tend to think that the brand of indie which (some of) the Manics liked – they talked about being particularly into McCarthy and Big Flame, IIRC – was more suburban / provincial than metropolitan. I can say with absolute certainty that no cool accrued from being into those bands in my provincial town in the mid-80s.

  46. 106
    Your Brother, The Astronaut on 30 Jun 2014 #

    Re: discussion of metal/rock and provincial towns.

    This is all purely 100% anecdotal as i have very little to compare it to but…I imagine the wave of metalish bands from Wales in the early 00s is very much to do with just the regular mechanics of musical scenes in highly isolated places breeding bands with simillar influences.

    Certainly an element of ‘anti-cool’ posturing but the lack of any outside influence has a major impact. As a teenager I had tastes which were very firmly anti-Metal but spent most of my Saturday nights watching local metal bands of various shades. In a city (or just a larger town) I would have probably been hanging elsewhere (as would have probably 45% of everyone else) but the lack of choice allowed marginal styles and genres to gain critical mass. (and no, doubt, create a degree of Stockholm syndrome; not entirely sure certian bands would have made it into my CD collection otherwise).

    With the internet etc. I’m not entirely sure provinical vs. urban has such a major impact anymore; at least on the logistics of impact, group-forming and tribalism.

  47. 107
    fivelongdays on 30 Jun 2014 #

    @106 – what I meant to say – and sorry if I wasn’t hugely clear – you are more likely to meet Rock/Metal fans from the provinces/suburbs than from cities (obvs with exceptions), not that small towns/suburbs are all Rock/Metal hotshots. There’s also the correlation that a lot of people who get to the metropolitan areas turn into the worst kind of trendy hipsters (if you’ve ever seen northerners in London, you’ll know what I mean)

    I don’t think it’s “anti Cool posturing” either. It’s a combination of not really KNOWING what it is you are supposed to like and/or knowing/realising the Cool People in the city wouldn’t want you anywhere near them (a problem I, sadly, know only too well)

  48. 108
    tm on 2 Jul 2014 #

    Tim @ 105: wahey, who’d have thought we’d see Big Flame mentioned in Popular! Guitarist Greg Keefe now lectures Architecture alongside my Dad at Manchester Met, came to a couple of my own early gigs and introduced me to John Robb who would influence my own music making over the years if which more to come…

  49. 109
    Mark M on 2 Jul 2014 #

    Re: 103 – I’ve probably mentioned this before, but big at my posh school in 1988 (that’s 1988) for boys: The Clash, The Pistols, the Dead Kennedys, AC/DC, Bob bloody Marley and, of course, yer Floyd. For girls: Tracy Chapman, The Cure. There were some goffs/NMA fans.

    I’m sure lots of them ‘fucking loved’ hip-hop and house in years to come, but barely any did yet. And no one was a fully fledged indie kid in mid/late ’80s terms.

    Every school I ever went to had at least a few kids into metal.

  50. 110
    tm on 4 Jul 2014 #

    I found …Tolerate… so disappointing at the time. I’d loved EMG, having been only dimly aware of them during the Richey era, as far as I was concerned, they were picking up the baton for big rock anthems dropped by Oasis (not sure if this fits with the release dates for EMG and Be Here Now but I may have come late to EMG, I remember thinking Design For Life was a Rod Stewart single when I first heard it – did he cover it on that album he did with the Oasis and Primal Scream covers?)

    On relistening, having since got into Gen Terrorists and The Holy Bible, I can’t say my opinion of Tolerate’s changed much: as others have noted, the best part is the synthy sounding guitars of the intro. I guess it’s best heard as a transition record between the pure rock of their first four albums and the wider ranging genre-hopping they’d do on later stuff but for the most part it still sounds to me like another slow, sad, overlong, overproduced late 90s post Britpop dirge (albeit with much better lyrics than The Verve or Embrace et al). I agree it’s great to see them at #1 but if Design For Life I can’t imagine this getting more than a 5. There are at least five singles from before and after this that, had they reached #1, are possible tens for me though.

  51. 111
    tm on 4 Jul 2014 #

    Sorry, penultimate sentence should read ‘if Design For Life had got there first’

  52. 112
    ciaran on 4 Jul 2014 #

    The Manics were liked by several in my school but I could never take to them fully. 1 or 2 half decent songs but not enough to make me a superfan or anything.A bit like the Chilli Peppers – liked by so many but just passed me by.Another bunnied Welsh band would join this list of groups!

    The disappearance of Richey gave them a much higher profile and the singles from Everything Must Go seemed a bit more stadium friendly. Australia was even used as on a tourism advert at one point.

    I like IYTT a lot more than I thought I would. Just about the right tempo and not as loud as the EMG era. Certainly a cut above most of 1998’s Number 1’s (especially compared to the kitchen-sink throwing of Oasis earlier in the year.)


  53. 113
    Tom on 8 Jul 2014 #

    Awesome effort here, and one that teaches valuable lessons about JDB’s scansion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV4CTHUFhig&feature=youtu.be

  54. 114
    fivelongdays on 10 Jul 2014 #

    @113 – I’d absolutely LOVE to see some homophobic, neanderthal Chavsabian fan go ‘Football! I must watch it!’, watch it, then check out the original – and have to confront Truth. ‘Twould be hilarious

  55. 115
    Nick R on 15 Jul 2014 #

    James Dean Bradfield and Nicky Wire turned up on The One Show last week. You’d think they’d be there to promote Futurology, but instead, they mainly talked about the origins and meaning of “If You Tolerate This…”, so it’s worth linking to it here. (But it’ll only be on the iPlayer for less than a day now.)


    They’re on it from about the 48 minute mark. The discussion of this song is followed by an acoustic performance of “You Stole The Sun From My Heart”.

  56. 116
    Cumbrian on 16 Jul 2014 #

    On Mertesacker Emptiness – it’s funny (re: Tom’s point) that I think JDB might have realised that his scansion is somewhat Germanic given “Europa Geht Durch Mich” from Futurology has just been released and Nina Hoss’ vocals (in German) fit the rhythm of JDB’s vocals from elsewhere in the song pretty well.

    Also on Mertesacker Emptiness – I hope he’s feeling at least somewhat empty this morning, given how drunk he seemed at yesterday’s World Cup celebration in Berlin – he’ll need the space in his gut for hangover food. He wasn’t quite at Flintoff 2005 Ashes levels but he seemed to be enjoying himself.

  57. 117
    Patrick Mexico on 20 Jul 2014 #

    Hola/top of the evening to y’all, I’m back.

    First and foremost, I’d like to congratulate Tom on a heartfelt, well-researched and brilliant review of one of my favourite bands. A 7 is spot on – this isn’t quite my favourite Manics era. Problem is, in the 12 months since the Be Here Now/Diana tipping point for British guitar bands (especially Britpop guitar bands) who ya gonna call? Doubt it’s Hurricane #1.

    The Manics now had such a huge fanbase – both old militant fans and newer casual ones (albeit sometimes at war with each other – Richey’s disappearance a bleakly omnipresent pivot and borderline), plus the critical acclaim for the populist, but not totally uncompromising Everything Must Go, and thus such, they had a golden opportunity to reach the top even with music that could be the most challenging the charts had seen since post-punk. Shortly before his disappearance Richey Edwards left a note for James Dean Bradfield – “Next album: Nine Inch Nails meets Pantera meets Screamadelica.”

    Perhaps in 1998 it was too recently raw and painful for the remaining members to follow up this project, but the Prodigy struck gold with the above (albeit more staggering down the hard shoulder of the M25 in ALF pyjamas and less bunking off school to watch the TUC)..

    IYTTYCWBN did not “tear the music industry a new one.” It didn’t change the face of Western society. It didn’t make people rush out into the streets with Molotov cocktails a la Paris 1968. I’m quite sure it didn’t spawn millions of teenagers who would say “that record changed my life” – though some previous Manics hits quite probably did, including ADFL. However, in a year where the demographic of the single buyer became younger and more character and performer-centric rather than the best mid-90s British bands’ songwriting, satire and socio-politics, it’s an absolute triumph that the top spot was gained by a song of mature, stately, steely, peak Springsteen maturity. But – like much of the Boss’s work – there’s something moving but it could have been so much more. And also like a Springsteen hit, this was misunderstood as a nationalist anthem by sinister right-wing numbskulls.

    Indeed, if you are looking for 1998 analogies, check the euphoric reaction to Brimful of Asha and Your Woman – where a genuinely multi-ethnic, multi-cultural Britain seemed to be finally reflected on a global stage, and with wit, intelligence and humour in droves. Now think of the sad irony where the irresponsible management of “multiculturalism” by New Labour started sowing its unpleasant seeds which would cause many unpleasant events, a key one being the resurgence of the far right – just watch [I]White Tribe[/I], the 2000 Darcus Howe documentary where a few ominous rats are smelled. You realise Oldham’s problems won’t be cured by some guys from down the road reminiscing about playing in the garden and living forever, and the Dover Daily Mail readers won’t be won over by – well – any popular culture after 1963. I can’t help but admire the Manics’ “stand up to things you know are wrong, however hard it seems in such a brutal world” statements, given the last 15 years where the BNP, EDL, and Britain First have been constant elephants in the room – and even more pertinent with the often jaw-dropping UKIP and Tory naivety of about “newspaper cuttings of (the wrong?) glory days” and “We can’t be racist, we have Asian friends.”

    I just thought it could have been done with a musical palette a bit more rabble-rousing rather than the “wistful” soft rock template used by Travis, the Verve, Ocean Colour Scene and similar “Not very Exciting But I Listen to Them Because They’re Proper Music.” I’d rather not ruminate on its parent #1 album – let Marcello! – but Embrace would never have the confrontational frankness for Ready for Drowning or The Everlasting. It’s just a shame one of the most exciting bands in Britain were, for a while, lumped in with the dullest. Albeit with hugely mixed results, they’ve stuck around and outlived a lot of them to this day, so hats off to MSP!

    A final word on #113 – well, Kasabian are an unashamedly mainstream oriented band, but is there really any need for that blatant “Chavsabian” class snobbery? I very much doubt you’ve met many of their fans to warrant making that caricature, let alone in-depth discussion of gay rights. I know this will sound barbed but there’s an unfortunate duality with your post and the mocking of the traditional white working class which is the only social/ethnic group considered “fair game” for the middle class dinner party set to mock these days.. and is one of the things which fuels support for fascism… on this record of all records..

  58. 118
    Patrick Mexico on 14 Aug 2014 #

    The universal language of IYTTYCWBN… http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/reds-blues-march-premier-league-7611875

  59. 119
    more on 30 Aug 2014 #

    If anybody’s interested this video reveals how you can alter your ip to look at French TV channels like M6 Replay online from everywhere.

  60. 120
    benson_79 on 23 Feb 2021 #

    I love the Manics as much for their failures as their successes, and I’d put their fifth album into the former bucket. At their (amazing) O2 gig at the end of 2011 when they played all their singles, I used the ones from TIMTTMYT for tactical bar/toilet breaks (Tsunami excepted).

    At the time its melancholic, elegiaic qualities really threw people. #99’s comment about EMG dripping with survivors’ guilt is spot on, but there it was often well-disguised by the music. Here we had pretty languid tunes and, worse, the band seemingly disowning their earlier words and deeds – “I don’t believe in it anymore/Pathetic acts for a worthless cause”. Cue much agonised wailing and gnashing of teeth from OG fans who weren’t sure whether they could – or indeed should – remain on board. Teletext’s music pages seemed to contain little else, the Manics boasting arguably the most epistolary of fanbases.

    As a post-Design For Life johnny-come-lately, my response was to immerse myself in the first three albums and wish that I’d been there from the beginning to experience this extraordinary band in real time. Happily though, a few years later I gave Send Away the Tigers a spin and fell in love with them all over again. Resistance Is Futile was pretty disappointing but it really doesn’t matter – it’s been a pleasure to follow their late career through all its twists and turns, dead ends and all.

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