BEE GEES – “You Win Again”
A scrap or two of memorable chorus, great thunking drums to cover up how negligible the verses are, mostly exhausted vocals, plenty of repeats to try and bang it all home. A weak song, and an ugly sounding, hollowed-out record – the big thin sound of “Chain Reaction” imploded like an squashed plastic bottle. Every time I play it I want to unpop my ears and check I’ve not got a 64kbps bitrate version by mistake. If “You Win Again” had be their only number one you could approach it with sadness and affection as a long-service medal. Instead I know how much better they can do: this is the dust at the bottom of the Bee Gees cereal packet.
4
In retrospect, this feels like the early rumblings of Heritage Rock. The last two Bee Gees singles had been in 1983, from the Staying Alive soundtrack, and neither reached the Top 40. Their last actual hits were in 1979. So when this became ubiquitous in 1987 I simply couldn’t understand: the Bee Gees belonged to a different generation, surely? This had no place in the charts – it felt as incongruous as the Stones or the Who reaching No 1 with a new song. Added to which was the fact that the Bee Gees were that silly disco pastiche act who Kenny Everett spoofed (I had no idea. Sorry). So this is surely a record that reached No 1 because Bee Gees fans had forgotten they hadn’t liked the Staying Alive singles, and were revisiting something inside themselves, in exactly the same way as Shed Seven are a bigger live draw now than they ever were first time round. It’s the Heritage Rock impulse, but successfully converted into chart position.
A weak song from a band capable of much better. A thinned out, poorly written, drab piece of work that isn’t fit to share a dance floor with Stayin’ Alive, You Should Be Dancing, or even Night Fever. A 4 is about right for this.
Appearing for the defence, I like the song. It’s slowly-paced but still has a sense of urgency, which I suspect is because the chorus releases a certain tension. The intro’s got character, and I see the ‘hollowed out’ nature as being brave enough not to add the kitchen sink, as so many bands of their vintage would have done.
Not guilty, I say, and award a (low) seven.
I (also) like this. Having experienced and enjoyed several different versions of the Bee Gees from the 60s onwards it didn’t come as too much as a surprise that they should adopt 80s production style (reminiscent of ZTT). I admire the way in which as a group they adapt to new sounds with genuine enthusiasm and engagement – not playing in their heritage or cluelessly jumping on a band wagon. To compare this to the dancefloor dominance of SNF makes as little sense as comparing that to Massachusetts.
I like the idiosyncratic song structure – the way the lyric of the title tumbles along with the loping rhythm and the harmonies as always are fab. 7 from me too.
“Hollowed out” wasn’t to do with the arrangement so much as the drum sounds – there’s something really dry and unpleasant about them. I’d be prepared to believe this is my MP3 though and that it sounds better on a ‘big system’!
I guess it’s true that it’s recognisably them just adapting to different things, but they did it much better on Chain Reaction even without bringing SNF into it.
THONK!BONK!THONK!BONK!
I think that this is sort of great, but compromised by that thunking production. Respect to the Bee Gees for trying to move with the times, but they really weren’t Propaganda…
The lyrics are rather splendidly bitter I’d say, and a pretty accurate Strindberg/ Edward Albee picture of a terrible relationship (“You’ve been using me. I’m surprised you let me stay around you. One day I’m gonna lift the cover and look inside your heart”) and one of the least clumsy and confusing Gibb songs.
Fourth form 1987 reaction – “Why are these old fools back?”
Number 2 Watch: A week of ‘Crockett’s Theme’ by Jan Hammer, followed by two weeks of George Michael’s ‘Faith’.
I much prefer Crockett’s Theme of the two. It just sounds lush and peachy and pastel to my clearly still 15-year old at heart self, wheras George sounds like he’s straining too hard to attain rock cred.
TOTPWatch: The Bee Gees twice performed You Win Again on Top Of The Pops. The Christmas show we’ll come to in the fullness of time;
1 October 1987. Also in the studio that week were; Sisters of Mercy (fantastic!), Gary Numan, Steve Winwood and Shakin’ Stevens. Gary Davies and Mike Smith were the hosts.
I like this and thought it was a rare moment of relative taste at number 1 in a sea of mostly mediocrity. one of the relatively few number ones owing nothing to hype, gimmick, being the latest craze, or transient mass fanbase of the latest artist of the moment.
I quite like these drum sounds on anything but a better 1987 example of them can be found on Donna Summer’s ‘Dinner With Gershwin’.
Is this the Gibb’s attempt at a BIG New Pop production? For starters, the song is weak, and drowning it in synths and those thumpy thumpy drums sound unnecessary. And what on earth is Maurice playing with in the video? It looks like a Korg KaossPad(!) with a fretboard attached to it! So a sympathy vote for the brothers Gibb, who gave us so much drama and passion and skill on SNF 10 years earlier, return with a rather iffy Diana Ross #1 and this. A disappointing pseudoNewPop hit from an album named after a pseudoscience. A 3 and I’m feeling generous.
There’s an OK song trying to get out from under the production here. As it is, though, this is like being held down and repeatedly punched by a bouncer. Indeed, it reminded me now of the witty audio from the trailer for the Coens’ (great) A Serious Man.
This did nothing on the US chart. We had to wait for 1989′s far superior “One” for the comeback.
Jesus Christ, are those actually drums, or did they just pitch refrigerators out of a high window?
A paltry #75 peak in the U.S. I dismissed this one when I first heard it back in the 80′s, but it grew on me. Not a shining example of their stellar catalog, but a decent standout of the post-Saturday Night Fever era.
First listen: “You’re the Inspiration” it ain’t but this is more graceful aging than many of their peers would indulge in. I like how they sort of rush over the syllables of the chorus, as if rebelling against the drama of the overdubs and Mr. Thonk-Bonk in the background, by turning the whole proceedings into a jaunty sing-song. Don’t mind this at all.
(Can anyone explain the video, though? Was one of their kids in film school at the time?)
@doc.casino, 17. I think the vid. apes some aspects of Stevie Winwood vids and album photography from the period – an unrelated diaphonous babe floats by in b/w basically. Don’t know what to make of the Bjork-ish landscapes tho’!
I see this as a fairly pretty chorus strung out to single length and smothered by some of the most inappropriate production ever to see the light of day. I can’t believe anyone would decide THAT was the drum sound they wanted.
yeah the vid’s aiming for winwood (probably the market they were hoping for at the time)(if the comeback had took stateside would we have seen a micheloeb update on ‘night fever’?), but it’s as shoddy looking as the record sounds (if there’s ever a glo-fi style update on phil collins production this will be an urtext). the singles that did provide a slight comeback in the us a couple of years later – “one” and “alone” – are much better, in the same league as their 60s work if not their disco peaks.
also considering the two go-to producers for comebacks at this time were rock dudes w/ heavy disco backgrounds (nile rodgers and don was) more’s the pity that the bee gees comeback records are saddled w/ such awful to mediocre production.
Late in the proceedings but re 1: Staying Alive and 1981′s He’s A Liar had done so badly, tarnished by the SNF backlash, that the Bee Gees brand (which I’m sure is how the Gibbs viewed it even back then) was retired for several years.
They plugged away with solo albums – Barry’s did zip (but he was arrogant to make a whole film to accompany the middling Now Voyager, which was maybe a first?), Robin’s did well in Europe (Juliet was a no.1 single in Germany, Another Lonely Night In New York is their best semi-forgotten single).
And they cut whole albums for other people between ’82 and ’86: Dionne Warwick (Heartbreaker, All The Love In The World), Diana Ross (Chain Reaction) and Kenny Rogers (Islands In The Stream – the best selling ‘country’ single in US history). Adding their backing vocals to all of them, it wasn’t the Bee Gees sound that had gone away, only the teeth and hair.
By 1987 they figured the dust had settled and they could re-emerge from SNF darkness. The rapid ascent of You Win Again was still surprising (22-6-1), and I remember everyone thinking ‘The Bee Gees? what the…?’. But what surprised me most was that they released it in late September. It sounded, literally, like Christmas. Bittersweet melody, bells and whistles, fairy lights, overstuffed. And that’s how I hear it now, as a slightly out of sync Christmas song. Sat alongside Shaky or Boney M, then, it’s a 9. As an early autumn hit with an asthmatic verse but a killer chorus coda, it’s a 7.
Nothing to add here – seems like all bases have been covered.
i do not get what people are saying about ‘the production’ holding this back or smothering it or whatevs. i really like that drum sound — and it gives the slow pace some gravity. mostly what bob said at the end there. it’s one of those songs i’d love to do karaoke but then realise i have no idea what the verses are on about. a 7 for me too. fondly remembered, but not in my all time greats
The legal disputes with Stigwood having been resolved, “You Win Again” was the first Bee Gees single release in four years and quickly became their fifth British number one, although did little business in the States – too European a sound, perhaps? Clearly glad and relieved to be able to perform their own material again, rather than farm their songs out to other artists, there is a certain verve to the record which gives an aura of jauntiness to what is fundamentally a rather bitter ballad (“I shouldn’t let you kick me when I’m down…my bay-bay”) laden with the usual bizarre surgical metaphors (“One day I’m gonna lift up the cover/And look inside your heart”) and occasional spurts of the sheerly inexplicable (“Nobody stops this body from taking you”).
The record’s strangest component, however, is its huge, clanking, industrial drum track, as though Neubauten or Test Dept had been called in for a remix. The drum pattern may have been Maurice Gibb’s idea, and the ghostly warblings of Robin in the chorus come across like 1969′s idealism being drowned in 1987′s thrust, but significantly Arif Mardin was back as producer, and he may have relished the notion of incorporating some Scritti modernity into the Gibb template. Fundamentally, and despite all of the above, “You Win Again” isn’t the greatest of songs, but I do relish Barry Gibb’s cumulative toothy threats (“I shake you from now on,” “I’m gonna hit you from all sides”); more comical than sinister but yes, I’d say this was their belated go at doing New Pop. Well, they helped invent the thing with Odessa innit.
Can we please keep Punctum occupied here – I’m trying to beat him to covering a certain LP on our respective blogs ?
I like this song, always have. I think the verse is perfectly fine and builds up really well to a chorus that, for me, soars. Such a shame about the production – the drum sound is horrendous, but there’s so many songs from this period you can level that accusation at. Aerosmith seem to have completely lifted the drums to much better effect on “Rag Doll” which was released in …..1987!
A good 6.
Bit of a plodder, isn’t it? Not one I’d place on the positive side of the Bee Gees ledger. Thinking of John Lydon as we inevitably are today, the drum sound reminds me a little of PiL’s “Rise”, but with so much less purpose.
Hell, I’d forgotten that while this was number one, Kiss had a UK number 4 hit! – with “Crazy Crazy Nights”. The first time they darkened our doors to that extent.
And it was while this was number one that I split up with my girlfriend of the previous four and a bit years. Unbeknown to me, my future wife saw it as an opportunity. Some you win…
Re post #28
“The first time they darkened our doors to that extent”
Darkened our doors? They lit up my world!!
I’d totally forgotten they had another #4 a few years later with their reworking of Argent’s “God Gave Rock’n'Roll To You”.
I see people talking about the lyrics and the melody, and I kind of feel like there’s no point in doing that. The entirety of the song, in my mind, is THONKBONKTHONKBONK and the rest is extraneous details. I literally cannot recall anything about this song after multiple listens except that.
This must’ve been one of the first pop songs I was aware of as a young child. To me, this song is recorded from a badly tuned radio onto an old worn-out cassette tape. Thinking back on it, I didn’t remember the drums, it was the vocal melody which I was able to hum before actually playing the song despite not having heard it for years. Actually playing it, it’s pretty ordinary stuff and doesn’t deserve more than a 5.
I liked this a lot and was very happy to see them back at the top. I don’t remember the drum sound ever bothering me that much at the time but now that everyone has been, um, banging on about it that’s about all I can hear now. You’ve ruined it for me!
I think it’s a good, shivery chorus – no great surprise from the Brothers, granted – but it always sounded empty, “hollow”, and now even worse with the iPod’s laissez-faire sound scheme. Bless them though, they can have as many long service medals as they like.
“la la la dum doo be doo You Win again sha la la la la lee.”
I do home in on lyrics in general, but this seems to be all I can remember of it.
Plus, the kettles/drums!
This always had a certain “No restraining order is going to stop me loving you” vibe to it.
Re 25: I’ve been pondering this for four months now… Odessa invents New Pop??
Speaking of which, can anyone recommend some New Pop reading for me? Just got the Dave Rimmer book.
If you can find it, Paul Morley’s Ask: The Chatter Of Pop compilation of interviews, observations, digressions and mournings is about as good as New Pop field reports and modest proposals get.
If you’re patient, and presuming Zero Books or anyone else is prepared to publish it, you can read the definitive history of New Pop which Lena and I are about to begin writing.
For my thoughts on Odessa scroll about halfway down this ancient manuscript.
I’m impatient, but just found a copy of Ask for $20 at abebooks – thanks!
Oh, and if you get zero books to publish your “fuller article on the Gibb brothers’ work” I’d be very happy.
Good grief, I’m in the minority here…I adored this so much, it was the first song I ever downloaded on mp3. The day of Maurice Gibb’s death in January 2003, VH1 played all the Bee Gees songs non-stop, and until then I’d only known them as those high-voiced ‘Staying Alive’ people from the late 70s. No idea they’d had more of a career than that, and this grabbed me – although the OTT drums are an irritation to most, they make the song even better for me. It’s like a slowed down ‘True Faith’.
So in the pre-iTunes days, I searched a million pages on Google before finding a website with this on. The previous Christmas I’d tried to find Mariah Carey’s ‘All I Want For Christmas Is You’ to no avail, this was my first success. For the first song I *legally* downloaded, we have to wait until 2006…but you’ll find out which when it gets its own Popular entry.
I’d definitely give this a high mark. One my faves of a great year for number 1s (PSBs/Whitney/MARRS/Mel & Kim/Steve Silk Hurley included). I also quite like later Bee Gees tracks like Secret Love and For Whom The Bell Tolls…
Robin Gibb – R.I.P.
Yes, not unexpected but sad news. Tributes from Mike Read and Paul Gambaccini on the Beeb this morning. Seems to have come too late for most of the dailies. The group had a few number 1s didn’t they, Robin’s tremulous voice being much more suited to the sixties hits. He can’t have been comfortable with the switch to the falsetto disco style which made Barry (the only looker in the group, tbf) effectively the front man. For Robin it was almost as inappropriate as wearing his hair shoulder-length, Clifford T Ward style.
Wardy has long been back in the pavilion himself, of course.
Yes, very sad to lose Robin. But any of you who saw he and Read on “Celebrity Millionaire” a short while ago would have seen how dreadful he looked.
RIP.