Comments on: I was a teenage dark elf priestess https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess Lollards in the high church of low culture Thu, 25 May 2023 19:30:27 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 By: lmm https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1506390 Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:17:24 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1506390 I am conscious of the tropes that apply to people like me, and I probably do conform to them. But rather than feeling trapped, I find this a comfort; human interaction is hard, and having a framework makes it easier. Of course a tropified view of my personality is necessarily incomplete, inaccurate even – but my personality isn’t something I feel especially proud of (nor ashamed of – it’s just there). I’d rather someone liked me for my talents, my interests, my judgement, perhaps even things like kindness or generosity – but those are variations within the trope, not an escape from it.

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By: DA https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1400943 Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:11:57 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1400943 The tropes (not the TV-Tropes type tropes perhaps, but I rarely use that site) that I felt trapped in as a teenager were, roughly –

The Monster – see Hulk. See Spider-Man when he loses his temper and nearly kills some villain or other. See Batman when he does the same. They might have good reasons! But they’re still, at least for that bit, a monster.

The Pick-them-up-and-drop-them sleazebag – like James Spader in Pretty in Pink, or a more intelligent version of Joey Donner from 10 Things I Hate About You.

And, I guess as a fusion of the two – the abuser. I don’t believe I did anything wrong, this should be said in advance. I probably fucked up out of ignorance occasionally. But constantly was this fear that maybe I really was like THAT GUY. THAT GUY is, well, Joey Donner again, or any of a dozen other short term villains in teen romance fiction.

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By: @pfangirl https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1196359 Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:11:00 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1196359 The Magic Slut is another trope BTW, if you don’t know what I’m talking about – http://t.co/fq74EuP0nY

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By: @pfangirl https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1196259 Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:51:31 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1196259 @Clones694 The Magic Slut is another trope – http://t.co/fq74EuP0nY

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By: 10 Manic Pixie Dream Girls From Film Adaptations of Novels | The Solipsistic Socialite https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1159967 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 09:08:37 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1159967 […] in part by Laurie Penny’s amazing article from the New Statesman earlier this week, and the equally thought-provoking response from Hazel of Freaky […]

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By: Steve Mannion https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158758 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:10:14 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158758 Just wanna micdrop on how annoying it is that Primal Scream now have a real awesome lady with a guitar and a fringe in the band…because it probably made me watch more of their set at Glasto than I otherwise would’ve (it being Primal Scream who I pretty much gave up on after ‘Country Girl’…). Instant superficial crush tho – fine to have alongside e.g. the kind you might develop on someone whose art you’ve experienced before even knowing who made it and what they look like.

A gender mix in bands seemed to become more unusual at some point in the 90s I thought – maybe something to do with the triple whammy of 60s revivalism in rock, young bedroom DJs and producers and how both boybands and girlbands operated in pop (inc. R&B) from then onwards. Something akin to aiming your product just at men (Yorkie) or just at women (Galaxy) despite its otherwise obvious univeral appeal and the way markets opt for extreme angles (not always consciously) perhaps.

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By: Somhairle Kelly https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158754 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 16:55:31 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158754 Iain – I keep getting that impulse and repressing it. (And sometimes noticing afterwards that I did something dangerous, but that’s a whole nother trope.) I’ve also seen a lot of people get burned out by trying to be The Carer, both men and women – it’s almost as bad as trying to be the Good Disabled Perso, which is such a horribly repellent trope I don’t even.

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By: Iain https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158740 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 15:37:35 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158740 I’ve seen both male and female acquaintances do really stupid/dangerous/self-destructive things not because they wanted to, but because they felt it was required of them as “artists”, yes.

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By: Andrew Farrell https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158739 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 15:30:16 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158739 Do you reckon that’s a male-specific thing though? I’m not sure that female creators are less romanticised (and I’m definitely not sure their reality is less prosaic!)

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By: 23 Daves https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158736 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 15:14:32 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158736 I loved the Laurie Penny article as well and shared it on Facebook – I note that it has caused a few arguments on there, with some people feeling that she seems to be claiming to speak for all women, and others feeling her examples are poor ones. But anyway…

Where tropes for men are concerned, I think men who are musicians or artists/writers may get them more than most. There’s a weight of romantic assumptions made about what makes “creative people” tick, whereas in reality their day-to-day existence tends to be as dull as anyone’s. I do know one male writer friend had a horribly doomed romantic relationship with somebody who thought she was buying into a bohemian lifestyle, only to end up with somebody who lived in an unkempt flat and occasionally watched rubbish television and got drunk at the weekends just like everyone else. I think she had read and admired his work beforehand, and expected him to float around her house providing poetic insights on tap.

I think most people eventually learn that wandering around looking for a certain type doesn’t really get you anywhere romantically, and it seems to be something people grow out of. That’s what I’ve always found perplexing about dating sites – they’re filled with a lot of people who think they know exactly what they’re looking for. How can they be so sure? Is that false certainty partly the thing that’s kept them single for so long?

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By: Chris https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158729 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 14:52:12 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158729 By: Hazel https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158727 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 14:42:05 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158727 #4- I’d square that at the writers. We tend to attach ourselves to things that are portrayed as attractive, so if you read a book that itself is romantically describing, say, the slag heaps of a building site you might find yourself suddenly drawn (I’m not talking sexually/romantically, here) to moody black and white photos of industrial landscapes, etc. Romanticisation is a weird thing.

#5- A creeping problem (that I don’t think Joss Whedon has, although he occasionally treads the line) is when you realise that a writer has thought ‘I want to put in some strong, interesting female characters’ and then you realise that they have just written ‘this person is strong and interesting’ without developing any why or how or personality, hence all these steely sci-fi ladies.

#6 -gosh, thank you!

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By: Steph https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158721 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 14:23:06 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158721 This is amazing, thank you. You’ve added so much to the conversation and given me loads to think about :)
Love your writing style!

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By: Play in Progress https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158720 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 14:11:49 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158720 But then, in Whedon the sidekicks are pretty much always the more interesting people… And Willow and Kaylee get to be people with actual insides and stuff, not just enigmas.

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By: Iain https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158716 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 13:49:22 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158716 There are definitely tropes for guys as well, yes. And it’s just so bloody tempting to play along with them, rather than deal with the messy complication of who you really are when you don’t even KNOW who you really are: you just point at the box labelled “Boden-wearing arthouse film elitist wallflower”, “difficult music hipster twat who’s drunk too much and lectures everyone”, “scruffy, shy gaming nerd hiding in the corner” or another of my all-too-easy to reach options.

What’s worse is that none of them are even “fake” like those self-appointed bastions of judgement on the internet like to term people who don’t like one particular thing at all times.

As you say, Manic Pixie Dream Girl predates the popularity of The Deschanel. Maybe it’s my Whedon Geek hat on today, but I’d point to Willow and Kaylee as the classic examples that Younger Me was rather keen on. And then I’d spread the net wider to plenty of others in a slightly tragic list. And what do they all have in common more than (usually red) hair in a shaggy bob and self-esteem almost as low as mine was? They’re all sidekicks.

Right now, I can’t say whether this reflects worse on the writers who use these tropes, or me. Probably me; I was a real idiot.

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By: Sabina https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158711 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 13:31:23 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158711 Mat >>>>>>> Rand (I haven’t thought of WoT in years!)

This is funny because I was pretty much a sassy authoritarian scientist.

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By: Hazel https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158687 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 12:31:01 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158687 He’s sort of a tabletop war game player, too- Rand is like, a big ol’ dude and he’s handsome and ~prophecied~ and things so of course he’s a leader with a big sword and whatever other metaphors. But then there’s Mat, who nearly kills himself because of his irresistable attraction to shiny things and then as a product of that, becomes a military genius.

I think it’s when they’re at Cairhien and about to fight the Aiel and Rand lets Mat into the tent where him and some experts have been looking at the battle situation (which, to be fair, seems remarkably simple…) and Mat instantly comes up with a strategy it’s taken them all day to guess. And like, of course! I know it’s because of all the secrets of dead generals being in his head but also; imagine a Warhammer enthusiast turning up to look at the table, they’d be in their element!

(I was a Warhammer enthusiast- I guess my inevitable path to War Studies was unsurprising)

/Mat Cauthon feels

(I am still terrified to read the final book in the Wheel of Time in case the last page is just ‘TROLLING! Next book 2015!’)

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By: Somhairle Kelly https://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2013/07/i-was-a-teenage-dark-elf-priestess/comment-page-1#comment-1158669 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 11:45:47 +0000 https://freakytrigger.co.uk/?p=24119#comment-1158669 Excellent article, thank you!

Mat Cauthon is so very much a boy trope – so many of us saw ourselves as the Trickster archetype, easygoing and permanently trying it on with life, finding the easy ways around, getting tripped up sometimes (though I hated the rape scene) and then, when we couldn’t avoid it, letting our natural supreme competence take over and get shit done.

He goes well with the MPDG, though – he’s almost entirely a reactive character, there to be picked up and whirled around and get his short-range aims done, but all the while waiting for a long-range story, and grousing about getting dragged along by the hot quirky plot.

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