Always sad to see the tributes on the news, this time with the glitterati already in place in LA to comment. And the finality of seeing the dates, 1963-2012. Particularly for those of us approaching the half-century ourselves, seeing a near contemporary who won’t make it. But again, what glorious music when she was at her peak.

The Swede can be forgiven on this occasion* on the grounds that it was light when his version came through. But a Sunday morning is a Sunday morning, after all! Anything before the end of The Archers Omnibus is strictly off limits. Not these days because I’m listening avidly but because I refuse to emerge from under the duvet and switch the radio on until it’s safely over.

* But I still remember being woken for Michael Jackson.

Or, well, not alive. RIP the pair :( :( :( :(

Sorry about silly o’clock Rosie, I was on football club business if you’ll believe me…

The Grammys should be very interesting now.

Rosie makes a good point about Chuck, Richard and BB. And, of course, Keef is still occupying the crease too against all logical odds and despite several referrals by the fielding side against a succcession of great shouts given not out.

Meanwhile, someone texted me a message hoping that when Whitney is waved through the gate by St Peter, Serge Gainsbourg is not lurking around in the shrubbery. Made me smile, that one.

It’s one of those moments to note wryly amidst the carnage wrought by the pressures of pop (and other) celebrity that those founding gods of R&B, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and BB King, are not only still with us but still performing.

My reading of “Though I try to resist being last on your list” is a bit different from Marcello’s; I’d put a comma after “resist”; so she’s trying to resist the guy, since she knows she’s last on his list (but she can’t resist him). I like Lex’s idea that the narrator is drawn to the role of other woman on the basis of her own character, though I’d say this is in the song as potential (songs are about what they’re about and are also about what they could be about), and I like MBI correctly pointing out how celebratory this performance sounds (though I don’t see its sounding celebratory being incompatible with its pain; in fact, the two may be linked). The potential I project onto the song is that she’s giving all her love to him not just because she won’t give it to anyone else, but because — what’s always there in this relationship — tonight could be the last time, may be the last time, she doesn’t know. So “all” doesn’t just mean exclusive, it means that tonight she’s giving her all, in the possible last chance for giving.

*Which is not by Goffin/King

It’s a good song, and partly because Whitney doesn’t do her famous over-the-top vocals on it, I find myself still enjoying it all these years later. “Subtlety” is something Whitney would later lack, and – in my opinion – she always lacked honesty. I can still recall her trashing Madonna for her slutty image back in the day, and yet to me Madonna’s “Live to Tell”, while being only as sincere as pop stars can be, seems infinitely more believable the Whitney’s bellow on “Didn’t We Almost Have it All”. The fact that Madonna never succumbed to the temptations of fame that could derail or submarine her career, while Whitney became a drugs-vacuum, is richly ironic in the light of those earlier comments.

The fact that Whitney would go on to inspire Mariah, and a million teenage “Look at me listen to me I have such BIG emotions” girls, taints her for me. Her later histrionics are also burned into my brain. But at this point in her career, she was an attractive young woman with a great voice singing soul-pop at a time when so much of it seemed inauthentic, and that justifiably made her a star. There were a good few years when she was the anti-Madonna, and for some reason, she was respected all the more for it.

And of course a large chunk of Whitney Houstons “I Wanna Dance With Somebody Who Loves Me” was sampled on Shut Up and Dance’s massive 1989 M25 party track ’5,6,7,8′.

I can imagine ‘I’m Your Baby Tonight’ doing well on that basis too – probably my favourite 90s single by her (it’s that or ‘It’s Not Right…’). And ‘So Emotional’ and ‘Love Will Save The Day’ slot in well with Janet tracks from the same time. I like quite a few of her uptempo numbers for that main reason.

(“Saving All My Love For You” = marginally less dull than “You Give Good Love”, nowhere near as good as “How Will I Know”)

(genuinely sincere question: how does Michael Bolton figure into all this?)

Mariah’s unfunneling the glitz probably had something to do with my Mariah love. (I do think the constant linking and comparing* of Whitney-Mariah overlooks their vast differences, but in the early ’90s the comparison was unavoidable just because their many-octave reach was so in your face.)

My guess is that Ella Fitzgerald’s music codes too middle class for the sort of middle-class person who becomes a rock or pop critic, neither bohemian enough nor lumpen enough. And her poor and sometimes rough early years are not stapled to her story in the way poor Billie’s are stapled to Billie. As for Ella’s actual music, I barely know it, which may be owing to its coding too middle class etc.

*I’m treating “the constant linking and comparing” as a singular; just feels right, but I’m not sure why. Or anyway, “the constant linking and comparing… overlook” seems wrong.

The next time I probably heard it was about eight years ago on a seven or eight hour taxi drive across the desert in Uzbekistan, where our taxi driver had one tape – Whitney’s greatest hits. That has pretty much killed any chance of me appreciating Whitney – it felt like drowning in syrup.

Listening to this afresh and actually listening to the lyrics, it is better than I remember. For all the discussion of technique vs soul above, Whitney’s fairly restrained on this one – the only fault I can find is that the opening lines seem sung a little too sunnily and bland. However, those horrible keyboards and the arrangement ensure that this isn’t going to get more than a 5 from me.

Turning to Ella, I freely admit I haven’t made any great effort to listen to her and appreciate her, or any other jazz for that matter (I reckon I’ll tackle jazz when I finally feel that there’s no more good rock and pop being made anymore). However, I’ve been exposed to a fair amount of Ella via my girlfriend, and it hasn’t tempted me to listen to more. I do feel that she sounds a bit too smooth, too perfect and too detached. I don’t hear Marcello’s “hard-won calmness”, just the calmness. I’m happy to admit this may be my fault rather than hers, but I see why some people don’t like her. (I feel similarly about some, though not all, of Sinatra’s songs too.)

I was an eleven year old boy with a fourteen year old sister who loved this. I therefore always hated it. Now? Yes, its pretty good isn’t it?

THE BRITISH RECORD INDUSTRY AWARDS: with Curiosity Killed The Cat, Whitney Houston, Spandau Ballet, Five Star, Level 42, Simply Red (1987)

DES O’CONNOR TONIGHT: with Thelma Barlow, Peter Baldwin, Joe Longthorne, Cliff Richard, Whitney Houston (1990)

DES O’CONNOR TONIGHT: with Whitney Houston, Donald O’Connor, Luke Perry, Leslie Nielsen (1992)

THE MONTREUX GOLDEN ROSE IMMC GALA: with Jean Beauvoir, Whitney Houston, Cutting Crew, Smokey Robinson, Alison Moyet, Boy George, The Cure, The Communards, Mel And Kim, Terence Trent D’Arby (1987)

THE MONTREUX ROCK FESTIVAL: with Whitney Houston, Smokey Robinson, Alison Moyet, Boy George, The Cure, The Communards, Mel & Kim, Terence Trent D’Arby, Samantha Fox, Robbie Neville (1987)

WOGAN: with Edwina Currie, Lee Durrell, Gerald Durrell, Whitney Houston, Anthony Perkins (1986)

WOGAN: with Doris Collins, Susan Hampshire, Edna Healey, Whitney Houston (1988)

THE WORD: with Flavor Flav, Boy George, Whitney Houston, Jesus Loves You (1990)

80:I much prefer The Greatest Love Of All – both her and George Benson’s version. Think George’s is just an amazing track and although Whitney houston’s is not up there wit that thin it’s easiest the best thing I’ve ever heard by her. Not fussed about any of her other stuff except possibly “Queen of the Night” (one of the few of her tracks that I remember being taken seriously in club/dj charts).

what, even Eddie Murphy’s rendition in Coming To America?

I am interested in it – I enjoyed reading a long interview with Robert Plant once where he dismissed his vocals in Led Zeppelin’s early years as histrionics, but said he got good on their later albums and praised what, to my ears, seem like fairly mundane performances. But I just never got it. That said, I saw x-factor for the first time recently and it was easy to see, amongst the individuals at least, which ones had the weapons in their armory and which didn’t, so perhaps I’m getting better. I do try to take a little care now when I’m singing in the shower, maybe that helps!

Anyway, I can’t put this song on right now, but I just wanted to drop in while thread is still going to say: fantastic discussion, there’s lots I can work with when I do get round to listening.