253. To. Euston
I mentioned on Lollards last night my growing (petty) irritation with the introduction of automated announcements on London buses, whereby the bus route and each stop is announced regularly throughout the journey. This morning I did a small, non-scientific, non-representative experiment to see whether my annoyance was reasonable - afterall, tube and overland trains have similar systems which are not half as irritating, and perhaps bus announcements just need adjusting to. Here are my results.
Journey: Stamford Hill Broadway to Brecknock Road
Bus: 253
Length of Journey: 19 minutes
Number of Stops: 18
Number of times announcement said ‘253. To. Euston’: 20
Number of times bus stop was announced: 18
Total number of announcements: 38
The pattern of announcements was this - on approach to bus stop announce stop name, on arrival at bus stop announce destination before opening doors (why?!), then once doors are closed and bus is pulling away, announce it again, for the benefit of passengers who have got on the bus and immediately forgotten which bus they got onto. There were a couple of stops where the destination was announced only once, but most of them got 2 announcements per stop. With the bus stopping approximately every minute this gives an average of 2 announcements every minute.
I’m not saying that this system doesn’t have merit - it is clearly quite useful in a number of ways, but it is excessively intrusive. Buses are quieter than trains, on the whole, so the announcement is clearer, and harder to tune out. I am fully convinced of the value of announcing the stop name, but announcing the destination is surely not as important, especially this frequently. I know it benefits people with visual impairments, but it’s not like they get on random buses then sit there waiting for an announcement that will let them know whether they’ve got on the right bus or not. And people getting off a bus have no real need to know what bus they are alighting from.
My experiment also suggests that no one will sit next to you if you have an open notepad into which you record a tally.
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FT's Alix on February 7th, 2008
Where I say a ‘couple’, I think I must mean more than a couple, otherwise it doesn’t add up. Further honing of experiment needed!
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
the first bus i noticed this development on was the 242 several months ago — also a pioneer route for the “bulbous space podule” type of bus, where the seats look much comfier than they actually are
253 and 254 were next
the 38s began announcements this week >:(
(to be fair i have learnt to tune out the interruptions while reading proving you can get used to anything)
and i quite enjoy when someone gets on the bus just as the robowoman says “it is a criminal offence to travel without a valid ticket or pass” — cz it seems like she is adding “yes i do mean YOU you dodgy-lookin fvck”
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
Announcing the bus stops is useful if you’re in an unfamiliar part of town - I had to go deep into Hampstead Garden Suburb last weekend for business purposes and since the hinterland of scrub beyond Golders Green is entirely a mystery to me I was most thankful for the cry of “MARKET PLACE!” on the 102 else I’d probably have ended up in Edmonton, or worse.
Announcing the destination is presumably for the blind etc. (actually is there an etc.?) but its frequency is rather offputting and the volume could be lowered.
It’s still preferable, however, to the Thatcher impersonator who used to come through the tannoy at Earl’s Court tube in the eighties; if you were in the lift and the door couldn’t shut “she” would bark out “YOU ARE DELAYING THE OPERATION OF THIS LIFT! STAND! CLEAR! OF! THE! DOOOOOOOOOOORS!!” Talk about no turning back!
Bec on February 7th, 2008
I’m totally with you - the 149 does it as well. REALLY LOUDLY!
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
On reflection, high volume may be there to compensate for deafened Walkman/iPod generation(s) or to be audible even with said devices on.
FT's Alix on February 7th, 2008
And it was! I was listening to The Name of this Band is Talking Heads throughout the experiment..
RickyT on February 7th, 2008
The 76 has been doing it for a while. It annoyed me for a while, but I’ve learned to tune it out.
Steve on February 7th, 2008
Absolutely hate this. For those partially or non-sighted, why not just ask the driver when they get on? People will often ask a driver if the bus stops at X or Y anyway but it feels like everything is being done to remove any driver/passenger communication as it is. Or perhaps the system could be activated when the driver sees that a partially/non-sighted person boards the bus. Everyone else including tourists coped without it for years…
Part of the reason for my ire is that a few months back I got on a 242 and the announcement system was going haywire. The driver seemed unable to fix it or even turn it off and so we had to listen to it listing every stop and the destination over and over again for the entire journey.
Steve on February 7th, 2008
I should say I am fine with them announcing each stop in turn really, it’s just the destination reminder count that should be curtailed.
Kat but logged out innit on February 7th, 2008
The non-trundly Stokey buses all bloody do it (except the 67 which is too ancient, I assume).
What is WAY more useful is the name of the stop being WRITTEN on the LED display at the front of the bus - that way when you have headphones on to block out the annoying announcey woman you can still tell when you are at your stop without having to look out of the window at the horrors of Dalston. It’s well annoying when it stops working and just puts a ‘*’ up there instead.
CarsmileSteve on February 7th, 2008
i really liked it when i was on the 253 and it went a bit wrong and the lady was just saying Hackney Central Station, Hackney Central Station, Hackney Central Station over and over again, it was like some sort of GLITCH BUS.
i don’t mind it, but then i don’t travel on busses anywhere near as frequently as i did a year ago. complaining about it existing (although not the frequency)is a bit like complaining about them removing routemasters, ie just disablist
FT's Alix on February 7th, 2008
Routemasters were ace though, weren’t they?
Celentari on February 7th, 2008
No, no, no, cannot agree with this. I am all in favour of bus stops being read out, and destinations too, though perhaps slightly less frequently.
How bloody dare anyone say the blind or partially sighted should have to ask the driver! Don’t you think people who can’t see already have to ask for enough help during the day? Wouldn’t you be grateful for anything that aided your independence? I know I would. For shame.
In any case, drivers are often grumpy/inaudible/heavily accented and I can’t hear/understand when I ask them to let me know where I’m supposed to get off. Also you would have to sit/stand near the driver because they’re not going to shout it out for you loud enough and going by a vague “after the lights by the Somerfields” type description is fraught with potential for confusion. Maybe the volume needs tweaking, but in principle this whole scheme is a good thing. As it is on the Tube too. It’s a safety issue for nightbuses too - anything that reduces the chance of the inebriated getting off in the wrong part of town is a good thing.
This isn’t about curtailing driver/passenger interaction either; if anything a courteous hello/thanks to the driver means all the more if it is done for no other reason than to be polite.
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
This problem would easily be resolved by the introduction of a device known as the “bus conductor.”
Oh yes - didn’t Routemasters have these?
chap on February 7th, 2008
Living in Tufnell Park and having good friends in Stamford Hill I do this journey all the time. Counting announcements will be my new way of passing the time on this route. I may report back with my findings.
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
the information about what stop it is often isn’t actually all that helpful, to the blind OR the sighted — it’s the official name of a bus stop, which is to say the name of a nearby tiny road no one who doesn’t actually live in it has ever heard of: so you still actually get people asking their neighbours (and being told nonsense)
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
But doesn’t that add to London’s secret (NOT psychogeographic) magic (cf. extended debate at beginning of The Man Who Was Thursday re. getting on an eastbound tube at Sloane Square and the implications if the next station weren’t Victoria)?
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
actually even when there WERE conductors none of them ever knew about the existence of clapton square, which the 38 goes right through the middle of — you had to say “hackney baths” or “the police station” (and the latter was risky as you might get the nod at dalston police station as was, which it also passed)
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
“excuse me, i couldn’t help overhearing, i’m a DÉRIVE CONSULTANT” <— exciting new way to get to know people on buses
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
You forget that the conductor on the 38 was also a pop star in his spare time - Duke Baysee anyone?
(nb: through the eighties and nineties when we regularly used to get the 19 back from Pic. Circus to King’s Road the most reliable “conductor” on that bus was in fact Slim Gaillard who always sat on the long seat to the left of the exit)
Steve on February 7th, 2008
“How bloody dare anyone say the blind or partially sighted should have to ask the driver! Don’t you think people who can’t see already have to ask for enough help during the day? Wouldn’t you be grateful for anything that aided your independence? I know I would. For shame.”
For me it’s not a question of ‘why should they have to ask’ but ‘how much of a problem is it for them to ask and for the driver to answer? set against the cost of installing and maintaining annoucement systems that isn’t actually useful 95% (estimation) of the time’. I don’t think this is equivalent to the wheelchairs/pushchairs access issue which works well (provided there’s enough space on the bus in the first place). Aiding their independence is good but most passengers will ask drivers for info regarding routes now and then. As I implied above I think the system would work better for EVERYBODY if these sorts of measures could be activated only when needed. Persistent announcements for me constitute a noise pollution issue almost as bad as mobile phone music.
Re routemasters and conductors, they went hand in hand for a reason. Conductors had room to move around on them because standing room was so limited. No chance of that on the veal-cart Bendy buses during peak hours.
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
on a bendy bus a few nights back i saw a EDGY HIPSTER TYPE use the emergency button to open the doors where HE wanted to get off — ie not yet at a stop during slow but not unbearable traffic
the driver must have sussed his game because the doors only opened a tiny bit before they were countermanded and shut again — EHT said cheerfully “haha that usually works!” to an elderly black lady standing next to him — she sucked her teeth at him and glared
i think there probably IS a “pestering the driver when he’s concentrating” issue being inadequately addressed — i’ve seen drivers be very curt with people asking questions or standing in the wrong place (too far forward), tho this kind of stuff varies lots from route to route — on a route to the HORRIBLE WEST i saw another EHT being very extremely rude to a driver for not setting off as soon as he’d like, trolling for a response basically, which he ended up getting so that EHT was then able to unleash his (very lame) killer sarcasm and look triumphantly back at his pals
(i buried myself in my book obv: i was in that snug little seat just tucked in beind the driver which is my favourite)
Steve on February 7th, 2008
‘drivers are often grumpy/inaudible/heavily accented
we should not settle for this. they must be better trained and equipped to deal with passenger enquiries, which will be made by everyone from time to time.
‘reduces the chance of the inebriated getting off in the wrong part of town’
helpful maybe but hopefully they devote more time and resources to encouraging people to not become so inebriated that they find themselves in this position on a bus in the first place. but i’m saying that as someone who has only fallen asleep on a bus home ONCE (altho it was actually the Oxford Tube…yes you see where this is going…) and stumbled off a bus blind drunk maybe just a couple of times (many years ago now!). but i think when you’re that drunk most of the time you wouldn’t even understand what some disembodied digital voice is parroting at you anyway.
Marcello Carlin on February 7th, 2008
re. HORRIBLE WEST mark plz see me in my office tomorrow 9 am sharp kthnxbye
FT's pˆnk s lord sükråt cunctør on February 7th, 2008
haha oops b-but this was goin up the harrow road marcello — my memory of bus etiquette dahn fulham way is that it’s the only time i’ve been on a london bus where the driver got LOST and had to ask the passengers where he was (admittedly he was on a diversion thx to HORRIBLE CHELSEA and their FOOTBALLS but this had been known to occur now and then previously i’m told)
Marcello Carlin on February 8th, 2008
Equation of Harrow Road with HORRIBLE WEST is fair enough; few would argue with that.
As a newbie resident within striking distance of Stamford Bridge I have very quickly learned to double check the fixtures to see when HORRIBLE CHELSEA are playing at home and plan my travels accordingly to avoid unexciting World’s End logjam…as far as supporting a local team is concerned I am absolutely going with Craven Cottage, al Fayed or no al Fayed, since (a) Fulham FC are football team rather than cold rationalist multinational concern and (b) they currently have a PERILOUS STRUGGLE with which it’s easy to identify and sympathise.
(also S/Bridge are EEJITS for getting rid of handily situated Harry Ramsden’s and replacing with latest crap Marco PW soup kitchen)
FT's Lena on February 8th, 2008
Here in Toronto they have just finished (or about to) having LED signage and recorded messages telling you all the stops and major landmarks (hospitals, subway stations, etc.) No announcements, however, on the terminal destination of the streetcar or bus as the TTC presumes you to have an idea as to where you are going already. Also, drivers here are usually okay-to-friendly and not the mirthless robot grumps they are in London (in my experience) so if you want to ask them a question, get directions, you can have an actual conversation. The announcements themselves are just loud enough to be heard and aren’t barked out, just…announced.
What PERILOUS STRUGGLE are Fulham (MY TEAM TOO) in? And HA for getting rid of Harry Ramsden’s in favor of “OH I HAVE SUFFERED” Marco PW.